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You guys are gonna put yer eyes out... 8)
Mike,,,,,who the hell told ya Doc could weld?!?! :shock: :lol:
Mike,,,,,who the hell told ya Doc could weld?!?! :shock: :lol:
ACCURA and OPTIMA owners please take..........
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He CAN weld, but his welds look pretty horrible. :shock:
The other Accura hasn't a sign of a crack. Looks new and in reality it hasn't been shot much at all. The heaviest bullets shot in it have been 300 grain XTPs so far.
Now the other one, the one that might have some tiny cracks at the forward end of those lug welds, was subjected to some torture testing using Swiss black powder and Batchief's 497 grain conicals. I knew it was his fault! 8) :wink:
Boys, I'm just not concerned much. Would rather those cracks weren't there but don't see them being any sort of problem unless they propagate.
Something to keep an eye on but I don't think they'll get past that first little glob of weld material.
The other Accura hasn't a sign of a crack. Looks new and in reality it hasn't been shot much at all. The heaviest bullets shot in it have been 300 grain XTPs so far.
Now the other one, the one that might have some tiny cracks at the forward end of those lug welds, was subjected to some torture testing using Swiss black powder and Batchief's 497 grain conicals. I knew it was his fault! 8) :wink:
Boys, I'm just not concerned much. Would rather those cracks weren't there but don't see them being any sort of problem unless they propagate.
Something to keep an eye on but I don't think they'll get past that first little glob of weld material.
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what kind of primers were you using? ive shot the 444 powerbelts with 100gr RS and when using the W209, it was very clean in there.
Are you guys slamming your accuras shut? I always use the lever and close it gently. I had an old h&r break open O/U .22/410 and i used to slam it shut. It broke on me due to the slamming so i decided i wouldnt do that on my accura.
Are you guys slamming your accuras shut? I always use the lever and close it gently. I had an old h&r break open O/U .22/410 and i used to slam it shut. It broke on me due to the slamming so i decided i wouldnt do that on my accura.
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frontier gander said:
Yer kidding,,,,right?? :shock:
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W209a but it wouldn't have mattered what kind I was using. And neither does how I close my action... but no, I don't slam it shut. I also don't treat it like a baby.
Try some Swiss 3F, about 90 grains by volume behind one of those big PBs.
FG, when someone notices an issue... please don't attempt to immediately minimize the possible consequences. That's either a sign of a vested interest, a lack of objectivity, or severe mental retardation.
Try some Swiss 3F, about 90 grains by volume behind one of those big PBs.
FG, when someone notices an issue... please don't attempt to immediately minimize the possible consequences. That's either a sign of a vested interest, a lack of objectivity, or severe mental retardation.
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UC
Fg judges the quality of the weld to mean a quality gun... Doc's welds may not look goot be dey holt.
Chief he dit sey dat he coot
Fg judges the quality of the weld to mean a quality gun... Doc's welds may not look goot be dey holt.
Chief he dit sey dat he coot
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Underclocked said:He CAN weld, but his welds look pretty horrible. :shock:
The other Accura hasn't a sign of a crack. Looks new and in reality it hasn't been shot much at all. The heaviest bullets shot in it have been 300 grain XTPs so far.
Now the other one, the one that might have some tiny cracks at the forward end of those lug welds, was subjected to some torture testing using Swiss black powder and Batchief's 497 grain conicals. I knew it was his fault! 8) :wink:
Boys, I'm just not concerned much. Would rather those cracks weren't there but don't see them being any sort of problem unless they propagate.
Something to keep an eye on but I don't think they'll get past that first little glob of weld material.
Dem Trashcans ain't fer sissys..... 8) :lol:
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not kidding. I dont like slamming them. After that h&r fell apart it was a real heart breaker.
Thats just me though, wasnt telling anyone how they should do it :lol:
Thats just me though, wasnt telling anyone how they should do it :lol:
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sabotloader said:
:?: :?: :?: :?:
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After inspecting my Accura, with the stainless barrel, I wonder if FG has an excellent point about opening and closing.... in particular about "opening."
My Inspection Results
Please remove the forearm piece from your ML in question for this discussion. My inspection reveals that I am making contact between the weld in question and the receiver group when opening the action, causing an extremely small indention in the sharp edge of the receiver and a small indention and one small hairline crack on one weld.
Discussion
Once the trigger guard is pulled back allowing for the action to open, the barrel rotates about the forward locking rod. The rotational movement is stopped by the contact of this most forward weld area (with the cracks) on the barrel and the receiver group it rests in. It appears that the weld material in this area is less dense than in the rest of the length of the weld. Repeated contact of this weld with the sharp edge of the receiver (or housing group?) may create these tiny stress cracks we are seeing. I can see where there would be the potential for high "cutting pressures" on the leading edge of this weld by the very sharp edge of the receiver if the barrel is allowed to swing rapidly about the rod, and the weld slams up against "this cutting edge."
Action?
I wonder if it would help by taking a wee bit of that sharp edge off of the receiver (housing group) with a small file? Obviously we need to be careful when opening the action, and not slam the weld into the cutting edge of the receiver.
My Inspection Results
Please remove the forearm piece from your ML in question for this discussion. My inspection reveals that I am making contact between the weld in question and the receiver group when opening the action, causing an extremely small indention in the sharp edge of the receiver and a small indention and one small hairline crack on one weld.
Discussion
Once the trigger guard is pulled back allowing for the action to open, the barrel rotates about the forward locking rod. The rotational movement is stopped by the contact of this most forward weld area (with the cracks) on the barrel and the receiver group it rests in. It appears that the weld material in this area is less dense than in the rest of the length of the weld. Repeated contact of this weld with the sharp edge of the receiver (or housing group?) may create these tiny stress cracks we are seeing. I can see where there would be the potential for high "cutting pressures" on the leading edge of this weld by the very sharp edge of the receiver if the barrel is allowed to swing rapidly about the rod, and the weld slams up against "this cutting edge."
Action?
I wonder if it would help by taking a wee bit of that sharp edge off of the receiver (housing group) with a small file? Obviously we need to be careful when opening the action, and not slam the weld into the cutting edge of the receiver.
NorCalSkinner,
The cracks that I think I can see in UC's pics, I seriously doubt the Aluminum Alloy frame would put that type of crack in a steel weld, but you have an example in front of you, and I don't. I can not see any marks from the frame in UC's 3:02 PM post, but I can see the holes and cracks on the end of the welds in his first pic of the front of barrel/receiver lug.
I seriously think they are stress cracks from barrel whip vibrations. I am surprised that they are showing up this early, as those rifles are only about a year old.
I really don't think they are a serious concern yet, but I am sure CVA is going to be busy if these are showing up on a good percentage of the rifles.
The cracks that I think I can see in UC's pics, I seriously doubt the Aluminum Alloy frame would put that type of crack in a steel weld, but you have an example in front of you, and I don't. I can not see any marks from the frame in UC's 3:02 PM post, but I can see the holes and cracks on the end of the welds in his first pic of the front of barrel/receiver lug.
I seriously think they are stress cracks from barrel whip vibrations. I am surprised that they are showing up this early, as those rifles are only about a year old.
I really don't think they are a serious concern yet, but I am sure CVA is going to be busy if these are showing up on a good percentage of the rifles.
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Busta said:
Do not remember the model. It was a harrington and richardson though. It had a .22cal up on top and the 410 shotgun on the bottom. It was a sweet little shooter but from slamming it shut all the time, it busted the lock up latch and the firing pin. The gun smith wanted close to $200 to repair it and so it went onto an auction. That was a great little set up on that rifle.
"please don't attempt to immediately minimize the possible consequences. "
I was thinking out loud. I personally dont see it being a big issue but, the rifles come with a warranty so i know if mine ever does this, i'll get right on it and have a replacement coming.
The biggest powerbelt i shot with real black powder was the 348's with the w209 and it was clean in the action area. Barrel though was filthy and had a bright yellow residue.
Norcal, My Accura to has the weld mark area in the front of the reciever. The only thing that keeps the barrel from falling off is the Forearm. + the lock up lever.
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It occured to me as well that those "cracks" could be started by contact with the receiver. One of my early suggestions to CVA was to get rid of the sharp and thin edges at the front of that receiver beneath the barrel. So far as I know, they've ignored that suggestion. My concern at the time was based more upon cosmetic damage.
One must truly be careful when removing the barrel from the action and even more cautious when putting it back. But, so far as normal opening and closing, I see no problem snapping the action closed (with a reasonable force).
But then... I do have a spare. :wink:
One must truly be careful when removing the barrel from the action and even more cautious when putting it back. But, so far as normal opening and closing, I see no problem snapping the action closed (with a reasonable force).
But then... I do have a spare. :wink:
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For clarification
Gentlemen, for your inspection and comment is the above picture of my Accura ML. Please note that I have pointed out the area that is clearly rolled over. It appears as a dent on the sharp edge.
This point of contact on the left side corresponds directly with the forward most portion of the left weld in question. Please note that I have very small, very short hairline cracks at the point of contact on the weld. The right side does NOT make contact and there are no cracks on that right weld.
I have been slowly opening the action without the forearm stock in place, and can see the point of contact being made. It looks like if we did not have the sharp edge or that the weld was ended a wee bit back, there would be no contact and subsequent cracking that occurs as the result of opening and crushing this part of the weld.... I guess!
Gentlemen, for your inspection and comment is the above picture of my Accura ML. Please note that I have pointed out the area that is clearly rolled over. It appears as a dent on the sharp edge.
This point of contact on the left side corresponds directly with the forward most portion of the left weld in question. Please note that I have very small, very short hairline cracks at the point of contact on the weld. The right side does NOT make contact and there are no cracks on that right weld.
I have been slowly opening the action without the forearm stock in place, and can see the point of contact being made. It looks like if we did not have the sharp edge or that the weld was ended a wee bit back, there would be no contact and subsequent cracking that occurs as the result of opening and crushing this part of the weld.... I guess!
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very interesting indeed.
I wonder if most of this happens from the factory when they first assemble them and slam them shut? The alloy frame will give a lot easier than the SS barrel/Lug. My Optima had the same marks but no cracks.
I wonder if most of this happens from the factory when they first assemble them and slam them shut? The alloy frame will give a lot easier than the SS barrel/Lug. My Optima had the same marks but no cracks.
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I think the "damage" occurs when the ML is OPENED
FG: I submit that I am of the belief that the "damage" occurs when the ML is "opened" not closed.
It appears that the "stop" when opening the action is the point of contact between the area of the weld on the barrel and the sharp edge of the action/receiver/housing below it.
I don't think with this sharp edge on the receiver it would take much to stress out the small frontal portion of the weld and cause the cracks when opening the action quickly and pushing it against "the stop"....
FG: I submit that I am of the belief that the "damage" occurs when the ML is "opened" not closed.
It appears that the "stop" when opening the action is the point of contact between the area of the weld on the barrel and the sharp edge of the action/receiver/housing below it.
I don't think with this sharp edge on the receiver it would take much to stress out the small frontal portion of the weld and cause the cracks when opening the action quickly and pushing it against "the stop"....
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Yes, you are correct. Gimme a break!! Its late and im tired :lol:
I always hold my forearm when i open it but those marks were there when it first came in new, and they havent increased in size. I wonder if any other break opens with welding like that shows the same thing?
I always hold my forearm when i open it but those marks were there when it first came in new, and they havent increased in size. I wonder if any other break opens with welding like that shows the same thing?
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FG: LMAO!! Yeah, it's late and an hour more for you!
Good question...
It seems to me that if (in the morning) we look at the receiver, we will clearly see that CVA has machined a small area on the front of the receiver that the barrel should rest on in the action's open position. The problem as I see it, is that the welds are forward about 1 to 2mm farther than they should be, and therefore the contact is made with the non-machined sharp edges on each side of the "machined lip portion" with the welds.
Have a nice night... maybe our eyes and brains will be better in the morning! I'm too tired for this also!!!
Good question...
It seems to me that if (in the morning) we look at the receiver, we will clearly see that CVA has machined a small area on the front of the receiver that the barrel should rest on in the action's open position. The problem as I see it, is that the welds are forward about 1 to 2mm farther than they should be, and therefore the contact is made with the non-machined sharp edges on each side of the "machined lip portion" with the welds.
Have a nice night... maybe our eyes and brains will be better in the morning! I'm too tired for this also!!! - Joined
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This was my first Accura frame and it is just as it came out of the box, brand new. It was then that I told CVA they should eliminate that sharp, thin area and also suggested they use a stronger alloy otherwise.
The frame was replaced promptly and CVA customer service was excellent.
So far as these cracks go, I think the damage is only cosmetic. If you look at the lug, it appears there is a long area where the lug is in or nearly in direct contact with the barrel. At the front, where these cracks are appearing, there is only weld material spanning a larger gap. I think you can probably see a curl in the weld metal that corresponds to where that gap narrows and I think that is where any cracking will end (in the worst case). Dat'z muh storee.
