BH 209

[Swamp]

I found a local store that has BH 209 in stock. Question is, is it really worth the cost????

Now, for me, I actually LIKE cleaning my rifles, and I swab between every shot with any powder I use. From what I have read, the velocity gain is only 100 fps over 777 with the same charge weight. So taking cleaning outta the equation, for me, I see no advantage of using the stuff. I buy 777 at $34 a lb, Pyrodex P for $26 a lb, why would I buy BH209 at $104 a lb???

Makes no sense to me for the minimal gain in velocity.

Prove me wrong!

 

[ElDiablo]

You’re right. Don’t buy any - save it for me….

 

[ENCORE50A]

Well, BH is very useful at LONG RANGE out to 1k.

 

[CatamountRob]

If you enjoy cleaning and swabbing Blackhorn isn’t for you.

 

[Heat]

One of the advantages I have read about but haven't been able to quantify myself is shot to shot consistency, or standard deviation. Data I have seen shows it is much better than any other propellant in that regard. As in 5 times better compared to the next best.

 

[ENCORE50A]

One of the advantages I have read about but haven't been able to quantify myself is shot to shot consistency, or standard deviation. Data I have seen shows it is much better than any other propellant in that regard. As in 5 times better compared to the next best.

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/bh209-lot-to-lot-velocity-test.41843/

 

[Swamp]

One of the advantages I have read about but haven't been able to quantify myself is shot to shot consistency, or standard deviation. Data I have seen shows it is much better than any other propellant in that regard. As in 5 times better compared to the next best.

Ok so maybe that’s why it’s so popular, being more consistent shot to shot. If that is indeed what it has over other powders, then I can see why shooters would prefer it.

 

[MrTom]

IF the hunter using BH209 has his ducks in a row, a follow-up shot on an animal might take 35-45 seconds or less to achieve. If he is using T7 or Pyro or true black and is taking time to damp swab, dry patch then reload he may have over a full minute into the second shot. Care to guess how far a deer or elk needing a second shot can go AFTER the 35-45 second BH209 reload has lapsed when using a different powder? Reload time matters.

Also, BH209 might not be for you if you hunt in very cold weather, as in sub-zero, and your gun does not seal the primer to the nth degree....meaning does it shoot clean. I've spent a few hours on the bench while it's a balmy -15 degrees in chilly Minnesota shooting all three of the guns I hunt with and all use BH209 while in the field. All are clean shooters using the Winchester Shotshell reloading primers and all shoot consistently at those cold temps. The only BH209 issue I have had at -15 degrees was with one gun that was not sealing the primers well and a simple rubber o-ring took care of that issue. Once a person's gun is shooting and showing clean spent primers that are known to hot enough for deep winter ignition, BH209 is a sweet, consistent powder.

Another part of shooting in extreme weather is to find the absolute best sequence of reloading, from carrying the bullets in sabots to using pre-measured powder charges in tubes along with having primers readily available. My hunting coat has a ton of pockets, so primers go into tubes and then into one pocket that's actually inside another larger pocket with the powder charge tubes. Just above the cluster pocket is another pocket that gets a couple tubes with the bullets, each wearing a sabot. When I am shooting from the bench in the cold, I shoot out of those same pockets, so I know where everything is by feel. A second shot, should I need it, is not going to take me much time at all. I haven't needed a second shot for over 30 years, but I am still prepared to do so.

 

[sabotloader]

Mr. Tom

IF the hunter using BH209 has his ducks in a row, a follow-up shot on an animal might take 35-45 seconds or less to achieve. If he is using T7 or Pyro or true black and is taking time to damp swab, dry patch then reload he may have over a full minute into the second shot. Care to guess how far a deer or elk needing a second shot can go AFTER the 35-45 second BH209 reload has lapsed when using a different powder? Reload time matters.

I would like to say that is not necessarily a fact with T7. I shoot a lot of T7 and in the hunting scenario, while using a 209 primer I can quite confidently get 3 - 4 shots in without running a damp patch. If your patch is slightly damp Blue Windex patch you do not need to run a dry patch. The evaporation of the ammonia also helps evaporate any other moisture, especially in a warm bore. Then if you are using Cap ignition with T7 there is not enough fouling to hamper loading shooting 10 - 15 times.

The big thing is to keep real petroleum oil out of the bore. Use synthetic products only.

 

[MrTom]

Just relating my experiences sabotloader. This is muzzleloading and nothing is cut in stone.

 

[52Bore]

I shot the same, 1 shot off a perfect score in back to back years using Swiss and BH209.
25 shot match from 50 to 200yds.
Same rifle and same pure lead bullet weight.

 

[JeffB1961]

i can shoot 3 shots in my old optima with 777 fffg without swabbing . it gets more difficult to push the bullet/sabot down the second and 3rd shot and i didn't try a 4th because the 3rd took a good amount of effort . but for a second/follow up shot in a hunting situation i'd just load and shoot .

52Bore that is a BEAUTIFUL gun !

 

[sabotloader]

Just relating my experiences sabotloader. This is muzzleloading and nothing is cut in stone.

Exactly! I do a lot of things different than the majority - but it works for me.

 

[eekjellander]

Well, BH is very useful at LONG RANGE out to 1k.

So is Black powder , we both know folks that use it and lots win comps with it /Ed

 

[CatamountRob]

There is no one right answer for everyone. I shoot what works best for me in different rifles in different situations. I like BH209 for hunting deer with break open guns. I have a couple Black Diamonds and in those I use Pyrodex RS because it works fine and it’s readily available. In my .32, .36 and .45 side locks I use the filthy black because it just works better.
Try them all and shoot what you like.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Loading a rifle through a triple seven crud ring certainly can be done. Also, there are ways to make it easier to do. However, the way it "feels" isn't pleasant, compared to the way it "feels" to load through Blackhorn residue. Swabbing the crud ring away makes for a better feel, when loading, and works good at the range. Triple seven is easy to clean.

For me, for me, hunting with Blackhorn provides accuracy, simplicity, and good feeling.

 

[JeffB1961]

for folks that use 777 and/or get crud rings ...... does the ".... fiberglass reinforced base with fouling cutting ring .... " eliminate the need for swabbing pretty much all together ? or does it just keep it down enough for several shots ? i understand a full cleaning after shooting is necessary ..... but at the range shooting a dozen or more shots does it do what it claims ? yes yes yes yes yes ...... bh209 doesn't make a crud ring .... but for cheap bass turds like me that use cheaper powder or pellets is the bor lock truly the answer for eliminating the need for swabbing ?



im a big believer that a good feeling about a tool or item adds confidence that can have positive effects on the outcome of the project and adds enjoyment .

 

[billyboy*]

CORROSION is also a Huge Factor. BH 209 is a Lot Less Corrosive than 777 & Pyrodex. I’ve seen plenty of barrels ruined by Pyrodex️

 

[Ron Huff]

I own and use both. Use BH209 in my Accura and have been shooting T7 loose in my MK85. I have yet to get the crud ring in the MK85 using 90 grains loose T7, 250 grain bullet in a Green Crush rib Sabot and the FPJ 209 primer set up. I swab after 5 shots and havent experienced a ring yet. Have owned other rifles that it showed up in after the first shot.

 

[MrTom]

It should also be mentioned that some guns, by their own design, are not compatible with Blackhorn powder. BH209, by lot number is also an issue one should be aware of. And, like any powder, different projectiles, their weights and sabots can also affect how accurately BH209 works.

In an earlier post I said, "This is muzzleloading and nothing is cut in stone." and this is the epitome of the original poster's question. Every aspect of muzzle loading has handful of variables. Depending on how well a person wants to get along with his gun, a ton of time at the range bench is likely something to look forward to extract the best out of each of his guns.

Ronlaughlin stated "For me, for me, hunting with Blackhorn provides accuracy, simplicity, and good feeling.". Confidence. 52bore posted "I shot the same, 1 shot off a perfect score in back to back years using Swiss and BH209. 25 shot match from 50 to 200yds. Same rifle and same pure lead bullet weight.". Confidence. Confidence is gotten by lots and lots of shooting and confidence is not gotten by "settling" for so-so performance or after trying one or two powders or powder types.