BH 209

[ENCORE50A]

.............. If BH209 is more consistent from shot to shot, then it’s worth looking into................

I believe that's exactly what others are saying.

 

[sabotloader]

This testing was completed a few years back in 2013... shooting both T7 and BH. These loads were hand thrown in a volume measure on sight as I was shooting.

Looking at the results, and at the time I was not even thinking consistency shot to shot. But, a quick glance at the printout tends to show me that both powders seemed to have pretty consistent results. Especially for hand thrown. I would tend to believe had they had been weighed charges then the results would have tightened.

 

[Jbrown69]

The primary reason I like BH is I can load my rifle and if I don’t shoot I can leave the load in place for the season if need be. I wouldn’t do that with anything else. Bench shooting I can use my T7 fff and swab.

The same for me but also for not having to swab after each shot. Cleans well with hoppes, shelf life is great and it is not hydroscopic. I load for the season unless the gun gets wet.

 

[Swamp]

This testing was completed a few years back in 2013... shooting both T7 and BH. These loads were hand thrown in a volume measure on sight as I was shooting.

Looking at the results, and at the time I was not even thinking consistency shot to shot. But, a quick glance at the printout tends to show me that both powders seemed to have pretty consistent results. Especially for hand thrown. I would tend to believe had they had been weighed charges then the results would have tightened.

Very interesting Sabotloader! Thank you for sharing that!

 

[sabotloader]

Going through old information I found the same comparison ran on a 45 cal ML.

Again these were hand thrown loads into a Brass Volume Measure on site.

The T7 consistency looks very good to me considering they were not weighed loads.

 

[GM54-120]

I would have to ask a simple question as far as consistent......

How many times has Triple7 been used to win at Friendship?........I would wager plain old Goex has a better track record. Its not too often you ever see other subs than BH209 in the top 5 or even top 10. Years ago Ultimate Firearms used it and did well but that may have been pellets. Savage used BlackMag one year if i recall and took 5th...i think.

Another thing is.....The whole bottle of BH209 is virtually the same. There are no fines. At least not to the same degree as other powders including real black. So when measured by volume, that volume will weigh closer than other subs. Same thing if you reverse it and weigh then compare volume. The size and shape of each grain is very consistent for a BP sub.

For me, if im going to use something else....It will be Swiss because i can buy it locally and its 100% reliable. Cost about the same as Triple7 too.

 

[Ron Huff]

I recently acquired my MK 85 and since it was not compatible with BH 209 I have been using loose 2F T7. I have been able to get very consistent performance from it. The last BH209 I got from Wal Mart was before the price increase to $52.00 per 8 oz and I like to shoot quite a bit. I will keep using the BH in my Accura but if supply and cost continue to be a problem when I run out I will probably switch to T7 exclusively. I have found that I can get good consistency with most powders through load development. I shoot a lot of traditional guns and keep all of them clean after shooting so rust has not been an issue.

 

[GM54-120]

Triple7 is great for use in a inline percussion because the crud ring is much better than with a 209. If i had a old MK i would not even waste my time with 209s unless i could not get any caps.

 

[45-70]

Correct!

But wouldn't the Potassium and Sulpher in BH be somewhat hygroscopic? I really do not know. Probably because I have never had a problem with either.

To me would be no difference in blackhorn or smokeless have same properties almost

 

[sabotloader]

I would have to ask a simple question as far as consistent......

How many times has Triple7 been used to win at Friendship?........I would wager plain old Goex has a better track record.

You know I have no idea! I really do not have any interest in long distant shooting. I am a hunter/recreational shooter with a self-imposed range of 200 yards.

Its not too often you ever see other subs than BH209 in the top 5 or even top 10. Years ago Ultimate Firearms used it and did well but that may have been pellets. Savage used BlackMag one year if i recall and took 5th...i think.

Black Mag was awful for me - tried it for awhile.

Another thing is.....The whole bottle of BH209 is virtually the same. There are no fines. At least not to the same degree as other powders including real black. So when measured by volume, that volume will weigh closer than other subs. Same thing if you reverse it and weigh then compare volume. The size and shape of each grain is very consistent for a BP sub.

I would really agree with that! BH has fines but not even close to what T7 can have. I make it a point to slowly tumble and turn T7 each time before loading it. So the fines remain somewhat mixed into the total of all loads. The final throws of the powder are very close to the all the throws in the bottle.

The size and shape in the early bottles of BH WERE very consistent. I would say in the later bottles, lot 37 and later, there are more smaller bits, not really powder fines like T7, in the mix.

For me, if im going to use something else....It will be Swiss because i can buy it locally and its 100% reliable. Cost about the same as Triple7 too.

Agree if I were going to use a real BP it would be Swiss but then I would be back concerning myself with rapid corrosion, which with T7 is not a concern that I have.

Also here, in Northern Idaho, you would have real hard time finding Swiss normal marketplaces cannot stock it or well really any real BP powders.

Do not get me wrong - I believe BH to be a great powder but not something I need to spend the money on as compared to a full pound of T7. Not counting this year 2022 - I purchase T7 at the end of the hunting season when local retail stores drop the price to the $20 area. That's why I am still shooting T7 made in 2013. For some reason stores had a lot of excess stock of 2013 powder. I do have 5 jugs of 2020 and one jug of 2021 on hand.

 

[10acres]

I have only shot BH209 at one range outing so far and I love it. I was able to shoot 20 times without cleaning. I used 777 pellets before, not loose powder, and I would have to clean every 2-3 shots. The fact that I can spend more time shooting at the range is a definite positive, because I don’t get to the range often.

Is it expensive? Yes.
Is it worth the price? To me yes, to others no.
Is it more accurate than 777? Not in my experience.

I now have several pounds of BH209 with several hundred dollars invested, but it should be enough to hopefully last a couple of years. Being able to maximize my time spent at the range is well worth it in my book. If I had a range at my house and shot more, I would probably shoot 777 loose for range fun and BH209 for hunting.

 

[ENCORE50A]

To the average shooter or hunter, about the only difference between T7 and BH, is the person on the trigger. It also depends on what the person on the trigger is trying to accomplish. So what if the shooter has to patch between rounds? The best shooters on the planet swab between rounds when using BH in National competitions and matches.

I've shot some unbelievable long range groups with T7.................. PELLETS. 400yds and 1.5" for 5 shots I'd say is pretty darn good for T7. I've also shot some pretty darn good groups at long rang with BH, including out to 1,000yds.

Cleaning............ say exactly what you like, agree or completely disagree but, there's no way BH cleans up easier than T7. I could clean that BP Xpress after shooting 180grs of T7 up to 20 times and clean it with 5 patches. Its impossible to clean my rifle after shooting BH with just 5 patches.

I say keep shooting regardless. If finances dictate its T7, just do it. If you prefer BH and can afford shooting it, just do it. Be safe and have fun!

 

[sabotloader]

Encore, I think you have really wrapped it up in a real neat package of writing

Thanks

 

[10acres]

If I shot a couple pounds of powder a year I would be shooting 777 loose instead of BH209.

 

[JeffB1961]

.................... I could clean that BP Xpress after shooting 180grs of T7 up to 20 times and clean it with 5 patches. Its impossible to clean my rifle after shooting BH with just 5 patches. ...........

HOLY JAMOLI ! 180grs is beyond stout !
are you patching any during those 20 shots ?
did you get the crud ring ?
what primers were you using ?

 

[GBG]

Personally, I'm glad to have so many options and use them all for different applications.

I use BH and T7 for inline hunting pistols, to get all the speed possible out of short barrels. Pyrodex RS is for the bulk of my rifle and shotgun shooting.

I keep a few pounds of real black 2Fg, 1Fg and Cannon powder to test/use with a TK200 and heavy for caliber bullets in several 52 Knights. My OCD cleaning procedures keep rust away.

@sabotloader , I've had those test results in my BP Ballistics folder since you first posted them. I probably have every graph and chart you've published since I got a computer in 2007.

 

[ENCORE50A]

HOLY JAMOLI ! 180grs is beyond stout !
are you patching any during those 20 shots ?
did you get the crud ring ?
what primers were you using ?

Its not a charge under a 300gr bullet you want to shoot without a muzzle brake. Trust me on that.
One patch in and out.
No crud ring when using Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine, ever, ever, ever so slightly damp between rounds.
LMRP's. Federal 215M Match.

 

[sabotloader]

Personally, I'm glad to have so many options and use them all for different applications.

I use BH and T7 for inline hunting pistols, to get all the speed possible out of short barrels. Pyrodex RS is for the bulk of my rifle and shotgun shooting.

I keep a few pounds of real black 2Fg, 1Fg and Cannon powder to test/use with a TK200 and heavy for caliber bullets in several 52 Knights. My OCD cleaning procedures keep rust away.

@sabotloader , I've had those test results in my BP Ballistics folder since you first posted them. I probably have every graph and chart you've published since I got a computer in 2007.

Thank you very much.... I was looking again last night and discovered more that I couldn't find the other day.

 

[45-70]

I would have to ask a simple question as far as consistent......

How many times has Triple7 been used to win at Friendship?........I would wager plain old Goex has a better track record. Its not too often you ever see other subs than BH209 in the top 5 or even top 10. Years ago Ultimate Firearms used it and did well but that may have been pellets. Savage used BlackMag one year if i recall and took 5th...i think.

Another thing is.....The whole bottle of BH209 is virtually the same. There are no fines. At least not to the same degree as other powders including real black. So when measured by volume, that volume will weigh closer than other subs. Same thing if you reverse it and weigh then compare volume. The size and shape of each grain is very consistent for a BP sub.

For me, if im going to use something else....It will be Swiss because i can buy it locally and its 100% reliable. Cost about the same as Triple7 too.

won Inline Nationals one year shooting Swiss 2ff and 500 gr, PP bullet , 90 grains, Triple 7 been out shot as far as I know

 

[ENCORE50A]

For the record.................... T7 has won the overall at Friendship. T7 pellets.

Jim Stewart won the Hunter Class and also had the highest overall score. With an Ultimate BP Xpress