Smokeless Patriot observations

[LHR]

I’m pretty new at this smokeless thing but have a few observations to share.

Sabots and Cutting Edge bullets/N120 do not play well together for me.

Northern Precision pin points, veggie wad and 56gr. N120 work very well together.


I fired this 5 shot group at 100 yards right after a scope adjustment, that first shot after adjusting is always off just a tad.


I found this load gave me an average 10 shot velocity of 2531 fps and recoil was stout but very manageable for a light weight Patriot. I have the Brux 1-20 twist 26” barrel.
Primers came out nice , easy and clean with very little blow by. Using the high pressure adjustable plug and Winchester 209’s.

About recoil, this same bullet loaded with 77gr. Weighed charge of BH209 was somewhat painful to shoot. Just as accurate, but not nearly as fun to shoot, maybe because the cost is so much higher with BH209. But BH209 velocity was only 1950 fps compared to the 2531fps of N120, I expected recoil with smokeless to be brutal and it just wasn’t!

When I ordered the high pressure breech plug kit , Mark sent me the stainless bushing and mentioned the carbide bushing was back ordered. Is the carbide bushing going to make a difference?

 

[MrTom]

The carbide will last a longggggg time, whereas the stainless will in time burn out. Shoot the stainless insert until the carbide numbers come back in stock then just retire the stainless one as a back-up should you need to replace the carbide one.

 

[jsteurrys]

When I ordered the high pressure breech plug kit , Mark sent me the stainless bushing and mentioned the carbide bushing was back ordered. Is the carbide bushing going to make a difference?

The carbide bushing will last longer assuming they both have the same orifice diameter.

 

[ElDiablo]

Thanks for the report. What grain weight are those? I need to try some of those NPs. I hear you about the recoil. I’ve put about a pound of (110-120+ gr loads) Bh209 through my McGowen in the last week and it beats me up in an 8 lb rifle. Can’t wait to get back to smokeless loads.

I just got in some more stainless and carbide bushings from Mark recently. So the new carbides are avail now I believe. As stated, they won’t make any real difference other than longevity. The real consideration is flash hole size (which may make some difference). Mark is making the SS and carbide bushings (I believe) in .030, .035 and .040”.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Lhr, bill at Northern precision can bond that version too, by the way and I recommend just the open tip version that he has also that's bonded. Great shooting!!!

 

[birdog]

Thanks for the report. What grain weight are those? I need to try some of those NPs. I hear you about the recoil. I’ve put about a pound of (110-120+ gr loads) Bh209 through my McGowen in the last week and it beats me up in an 8 lb rifle. Can’t wait to get back to smokeless loads.

I just got in some more stainless and carbide bushings from Mark recently. So the new carbides are avail now I believe. As stated, they won’t make any real difference other than longevity. The real consideration is flash hole size (which may make some difference). Mark is making the SS and carbide bushings (I believe) in .030, .035 and .040”.

Please explain the different size bushings and the benefits of one over the others. I have a .035 bushing in my ASG smokeless Encore barrel. A friend has an .030 in his Encore MGM BP only barrel. He shoots BH only with 209 primers. I shoot 4198 with LRMP only. I was puzzled why MGM went with .030.

 

[ElDiablo]

Please explain the different size bushings and the benefits of one over the others. I have a .035 bushing in my ASG smokeless Encore barrel. A friend has an .030 in his Encore MGM BP only barrel. He shoots BH only with 209 primers. I shoot 4198 with LRMP only. I was puzzled why MGM went with .030.

Good question. I’ve been using primarily .035 and .040 bushings with smokeless and Bh209 loads. I’ve only put about 500 shots through mine. I don’t detect any differences (accuracy/Fouling/pressure). I would think that shooting in very cold weather one might want a larger flash hole (.035 or .040).

Someone else may have thoughts on bushing sizes.

 

[GM54-120]

I would rather shoot my NULA with a 275gr@2400fps+ than my Knights with the same bullet and 120grV of BH209. Even though the NULA weighs quite a bit less and its shooting quite a bit faster, the BH209 recoil sure feels worse. Takes me about 57-58 grains of N120 to do that. Its not fun to shoot off the bench no matter how you look at it but ive certainly shot more painful loads of BH209.

 

[smokeeter]

.030 used to be the norm with smokeless loads, I remember when guys were changing bushings out when they opened up >.035. I can see where the larger orifice would be beneficial with BH209

 

[Harley469]

I’m pretty new at this smokeless thing but have a few observations to share.

Sabots and Cutting Edge bullets/N120 do not play well together for me.

Northern Precision pin points, veggie wad and 56gr. N120 work very well together.
View attachment 37327

I fired this 5 shot group at 100 yards right after a scope adjustment, that first shot after adjusting is always off just a tad.

View attachment 37328
I found this load gave me an average 10 shot velocity of 2531 fps and recoil was stout but very manageable for a light weight Patriot. I have the Brux 1-20 twist 26” barrel.
Primers came out nice , easy and clean with very little blow by. Using the high pressure adjustable plug and Winchester 209’s.

About recoil, this same bullet loaded with 77gr. Weighed charge of BH209 was somewhat painful to shoot. Just as accurate, but not nearly as fun to shoot, maybe because the cost is so much higher with BH209. But BH209 velocity was only 1950 fps compared to the 2531fps of N120, I expected recoil with smokeless to be brutal and it just wasn’t!

When I ordered the high pressure breech plug kit , Mark sent me the stainless bushing and mentioned the carbide bushing was back ordered. Is the carbide bushing going to make a difference?

This is almost the same load that I used in my Savage ML II- wasn't bullet to bore however, and I would have more gas escaping than you-my primers would always be very black. I'm sure the Woodman breech plug is a much better design. By the way, I have about a pound and 1/2 of N120 that I won't need anymore, so if you want it let me know (sold the Savage and just using my custom smokeless now-using H322 and 4198).

 

[LHR]

This is almost the same load that I used in my Savage ML II- wasn't bullet to bore however, and I would have more gas escaping than you-my primers would always be very black. I'm sure the Woodman breech plug is a much better design. By the way, I have about a pound and 1/2 of N120 that I won't need anymore, so if you want it let me know (sold the Savage and just using my custom smokeless now-using H322 and 4198).

Thanks for the offer Harley,
Where are you located?

 

[Harley469]

Thanks for the offer Harley,
Where are you located?

N IL

 

[derfhunter]

I think some people use the .030 bushing to keep powder from migrating thru the bushing hole into the bolt face.
Also the smaller hole keeps some pressure off of the primer. h4198 granules are smaller than the .035 hole.

 

[ElDiablo]

I think some people use the .030 bushing to keep powder from migrating thru the bushing hole into the bolt face.
Also the smaller hole keeps some pressure off of the primer. h4198 granules are smaller than the .035 hole.

N120 will go right through a .040 and even a .035 with a little vibration.

 

[LHR]

N IL

Hopefully someone close to you could use it

 

[Slaynbux]

Curious how often do guys need to change out bushings. It gets opened up primarily by primer flame? If so how many shots are they good for, say a mag rifle primer.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Curious how often do guys need to change out bushings. It gets opened up primarily by primer flame? If so how many shots are they good for, say a mag rifle primer.

Tungsten bushings are supposed to last almost indefinitely. Smaller calibers (.40 & smaller) will show wear before larger cal.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I clean my Woodman plugs every 15 to 20 rounds, and just do a quick visual around the edges of that bushing, depending on the load I think I'm probably averaging around 60 to 80 rounds I have had a couple that I put more on and I have had a couple that I needed to replace with less just do a quick visual when you've got it broke down cleaning again I very much appreciate the adjustability aspect.

 

[Slaynbux]

Tungsten bushings are supposed to last almost indefinitely. Smaller calibers (.40 & smaller) will show wear before larger

 

[Slaynbux]

Good to know thanks