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This is a short review and comment on two fast twists 50 caliber barrels, this review and commentary is in no way a recommendation of powder charges or methods to be used by others and at the same time I believe these charges and bullets and methods to be safe.
Equipment used during test.
Defiance anti action
Remington varmint stock provided by stocky stocks
Douglas 1.25 Bull Barrels a 22 and a 20 twist both barrels finish from crown to lug at 25 and a quarter inches
Stock scope Barrel complete weigh 13 lb even
Only rifle scope used during the test is a ior 2.5 - 10 x 42
A front rest and a rear bag were used with all groups.
Both barrels were built by Woodman arms, breech plugs used are also, as well as modules, primers used were large rifle Federal mag
Harvester black short smooth
Bullets tested, again the test was 200 bullets in each barrel, for the most part the same bullets in both barrels ,however I did try more of a variety in the 22 twist.
1.fury basic star tip 250 it shot a very strong 3/4 Moa which I was surprised
2. Fury black tip 250.452 again 3/4 Moa confirm 2 days in a row
3. Fury 275 star tip
4. Fury 275 black tip
5. Fury 300 red ball tip stb
6. Fury Green tip 300 grain
7. Fury 325
8. Fury 400
9.sst250 and smackdown
10.xtp 300 gr mag
11.250 xtp
12. Northern precision 325
13. Northern Precision 400
14. Pittman accumax 325
Purpose
The focus of this experiment has been a closer look at twist and hopefully add to a lot of the knowledge and experience already established in 50 cal smokeless muzzleloading.
There is much recorded experience with 50 cal smokeless muzzleloading much of that was from a time when smokeless muzzle loading was in a sense developing ,The Savage smokeless rifles and those that were working with the Savages as well as other rifles, laid the groundwork for a lot of what we do today, even in 45 and 40 cal.
Shooting the two barrels.
I began with the 22 twist, I started with Sr 4759 and some 250 grain SST just to get the gun sighted in ,accuracy was there even moving the scope a little bit, 4759 showed a lot of potential and at the same time I had a couple of shots that didn't seem to have the power which I was surprised because I expected 4759 to be instant in ignition, I instantly switched to IMR 4198 I had 59 grains kind of in my mind already no special purpose that I have to explain that I went ahead and weighed out 59 grains and got a very good group was very happy with the conditions of the sabots, and this is another aspect of the 22 twist Barrel that I find odd maybe in a good way and I'll just state it now ,every single group I shot with that barrel other than a couple of 400 grain bullets was shot with 59 grains even the 325 in that particular Barrel, I did no ladder testing on the 22 twist at all only shot the same charge if you go back up and look at that bullet list it really is pretty incredible that a 50 cal smokeless rifle could shoot 14 bullets all less than Moa and most of them actually around 3/4 or less Moa. As I have shot both of these barrels I have always kept the same pace and timing my bench is 50 yd from my house I fire one round I casually get up from my bench walk back in the house weigh a charge, load the gun,walk back out sit down and fire ,I have not timed that, there have been some groups where I know after that third shot my barrel still was a still warm slightly, I have kept the same pace however and many of the groups I have shot would put the first three bullets well under MOA oftentimes in a half inch and the last two might pull the group out closer to 3/4 or 7/8 I'm very confident when I say all of these bullets shot less than Moa, I was so overwhelmed with the results of the 22 twist on every single load I went back the second day and shot again just to make sure it wasn't a lucky group.
The 22 shot better with light bullets and by light I mean 250s than the 20 did ,however the 20 shot better with the 325s-400.
With both barrels I wanted to stay as basic in my methods of shooting them as I could ,by that I mean pouring powder, seating a sabot with bullet, and shooting,no support of any kind, no wad, no sub base. I was not looking for velocity even though I realize how important it is, I wasn't worried so much about high pressures if anything I was very much anemic and on the low pressure side I know that, what I was adamant about was taking my plastic to its limit and stopping there, again in a lot of my other shooting with 45 Cal I often find that is where the accuracy is, at least in a lower pressure load.
I'm very amazed with both barrels how constant and consistent they are the only time I ever got a quote, flyer, was when I had a weakness in ignition it would be evident when I picked the plastic up off the ground and those were very few, one thing I will say and this is an established reality the 50 likes a tight fit plastic bullet combination. Short Harvester black smooth were shot in both barrels, both barrels showed a slight preference over the ribbed.
With heavy bullets the 400 grains I did try some loads with Varget they shot well, but I did have a couple of ignition issues, also with the lighter bullets I tried n110 ,it shot around an inch in both barrels ,what was curious for me was I couldn't get n110 to tune going from starting load to Max load the groups all look the same.
I realize sitting here trying to communicate a little short summary there's so much more I could say which I will not for now, maybe my comments and inspiration is more smokeless philosophy rather than this particular experiment,,, often we take established norms and instead of using them as a springboard we are confined by them,
50 cal smokeless has incredible potential if you think about it you can go in any store in America and buy some 250 or 300 grain SST as well as some 300 grain xtps there's so many bullets available that could be used in a 50 cal smokeless much of what we think about 50 cal smokeless was established 10 years ago and it's great for a base of information we have new bullets now and smokeless muzzle loading has just grown it's matured I plan on adding a couple of 50 cal smokeless hunting rifles to my 45 Cal collection and you can sure bet they will be fast twist with a little support under the plastic with some velocity testing done I really think 50 cal smokeless could be more mainstream than even 45 is it sure is practical.
I want to thank Mark Woodman for his help and talking me off the mad scientist ledge many times and modern muzzleloader and the friends and family I have there ,I hope others can take this crude experiment and add technical expertise to it ,there is so much potential and in my eyes we are only getting started.
There are many more details in shooting both of these barrels I welcome any questions anyone has ,any time ,I sure hope others give 50 cal fast twist a second look,, I mean 14 bullets in plastic all less than Moa maybe some of those older Savage rifles did that I don't know, all I know is I have 50 cal on the brain right now I cannot even see my 45 Cal rifles and never thought I'd say that it just must be a temporary Madness
Equipment used during test.
Defiance anti action
Remington varmint stock provided by stocky stocks
Douglas 1.25 Bull Barrels a 22 and a 20 twist both barrels finish from crown to lug at 25 and a quarter inches
Stock scope Barrel complete weigh 13 lb even
Only rifle scope used during the test is a ior 2.5 - 10 x 42
A front rest and a rear bag were used with all groups.
Both barrels were built by Woodman arms, breech plugs used are also, as well as modules, primers used were large rifle Federal mag
Harvester black short smooth
Bullets tested, again the test was 200 bullets in each barrel, for the most part the same bullets in both barrels ,however I did try more of a variety in the 22 twist.
1.fury basic star tip 250 it shot a very strong 3/4 Moa which I was surprised
2. Fury black tip 250.452 again 3/4 Moa confirm 2 days in a row
3. Fury 275 star tip
4. Fury 275 black tip
5. Fury 300 red ball tip stb
6. Fury Green tip 300 grain
7. Fury 325
8. Fury 400
9.sst250 and smackdown
10.xtp 300 gr mag
11.250 xtp
12. Northern precision 325
13. Northern Precision 400
14. Pittman accumax 325
Purpose
The focus of this experiment has been a closer look at twist and hopefully add to a lot of the knowledge and experience already established in 50 cal smokeless muzzleloading.
There is much recorded experience with 50 cal smokeless muzzleloading much of that was from a time when smokeless muzzle loading was in a sense developing ,The Savage smokeless rifles and those that were working with the Savages as well as other rifles, laid the groundwork for a lot of what we do today, even in 45 and 40 cal.
Shooting the two barrels.
I began with the 22 twist, I started with Sr 4759 and some 250 grain SST just to get the gun sighted in ,accuracy was there even moving the scope a little bit, 4759 showed a lot of potential and at the same time I had a couple of shots that didn't seem to have the power which I was surprised because I expected 4759 to be instant in ignition, I instantly switched to IMR 4198 I had 59 grains kind of in my mind already no special purpose that I have to explain that I went ahead and weighed out 59 grains and got a very good group was very happy with the conditions of the sabots, and this is another aspect of the 22 twist Barrel that I find odd maybe in a good way and I'll just state it now ,every single group I shot with that barrel other than a couple of 400 grain bullets was shot with 59 grains even the 325 in that particular Barrel, I did no ladder testing on the 22 twist at all only shot the same charge if you go back up and look at that bullet list it really is pretty incredible that a 50 cal smokeless rifle could shoot 14 bullets all less than Moa and most of them actually around 3/4 or less Moa. As I have shot both of these barrels I have always kept the same pace and timing my bench is 50 yd from my house I fire one round I casually get up from my bench walk back in the house weigh a charge, load the gun,walk back out sit down and fire ,I have not timed that, there have been some groups where I know after that third shot my barrel still was a still warm slightly, I have kept the same pace however and many of the groups I have shot would put the first three bullets well under MOA oftentimes in a half inch and the last two might pull the group out closer to 3/4 or 7/8 I'm very confident when I say all of these bullets shot less than Moa, I was so overwhelmed with the results of the 22 twist on every single load I went back the second day and shot again just to make sure it wasn't a lucky group.
The 22 shot better with light bullets and by light I mean 250s than the 20 did ,however the 20 shot better with the 325s-400.
With both barrels I wanted to stay as basic in my methods of shooting them as I could ,by that I mean pouring powder, seating a sabot with bullet, and shooting,no support of any kind, no wad, no sub base. I was not looking for velocity even though I realize how important it is, I wasn't worried so much about high pressures if anything I was very much anemic and on the low pressure side I know that, what I was adamant about was taking my plastic to its limit and stopping there, again in a lot of my other shooting with 45 Cal I often find that is where the accuracy is, at least in a lower pressure load.
I'm very amazed with both barrels how constant and consistent they are the only time I ever got a quote, flyer, was when I had a weakness in ignition it would be evident when I picked the plastic up off the ground and those were very few, one thing I will say and this is an established reality the 50 likes a tight fit plastic bullet combination. Short Harvester black smooth were shot in both barrels, both barrels showed a slight preference over the ribbed.
With heavy bullets the 400 grains I did try some loads with Varget they shot well, but I did have a couple of ignition issues, also with the lighter bullets I tried n110 ,it shot around an inch in both barrels ,what was curious for me was I couldn't get n110 to tune going from starting load to Max load the groups all look the same.
I realize sitting here trying to communicate a little short summary there's so much more I could say which I will not for now, maybe my comments and inspiration is more smokeless philosophy rather than this particular experiment,,, often we take established norms and instead of using them as a springboard we are confined by them,
50 cal smokeless has incredible potential if you think about it you can go in any store in America and buy some 250 or 300 grain SST as well as some 300 grain xtps there's so many bullets available that could be used in a 50 cal smokeless much of what we think about 50 cal smokeless was established 10 years ago and it's great for a base of information we have new bullets now and smokeless muzzle loading has just grown it's matured I plan on adding a couple of 50 cal smokeless hunting rifles to my 45 Cal collection and you can sure bet they will be fast twist with a little support under the plastic with some velocity testing done I really think 50 cal smokeless could be more mainstream than even 45 is it sure is practical.
I want to thank Mark Woodman for his help and talking me off the mad scientist ledge many times and modern muzzleloader and the friends and family I have there ,I hope others can take this crude experiment and add technical expertise to it ,there is so much potential and in my eyes we are only getting started.
There are many more details in shooting both of these barrels I welcome any questions anyone has ,any time ,I sure hope others give 50 cal fast twist a second look,, I mean 14 bullets in plastic all less than Moa maybe some of those older Savage rifles did that I don't know, all I know is I have 50 cal on the brain right now I cannot even see my 45 Cal rifles and never thought I'd say that it just must be a temporary Madness
