Well its time for another pellet....i guess

[Okie Hog]

For years i used Pyrodex pellets interchangeably with Pyrodex granular powder. At 100 yards two Pyrodex pellets put the bullet in the group with those fired with 100 measured grains of granular Pyrodex.

For various reasons having to do with shelf life of Pyrodex pellets and the likes of several different muzzleloaders i no longer use pellets.

Most of my friends use pellets for the convenience. They are not dedicated muzzleloader shooters. Most fire a few shots to confirm zero before deer season. No powder measure is needed, no powder cans to store, no concern about spilling powder while loading.

No need to bash those who choose to use pellets.

 

[HC]

It would be nice to see a honest review on the new pellets to see if there claims are true. I know a guy on this forum that tests bullets, maybe we could get him to do a review?

Sent from my ME301T using Tapatalk

 

[ENCORE50A]

https://s19.postimg.org/iyn0tl3cz/IMG_1086.jpg

https://s19.postimg.org/9e3e6oqvn/100_4891.jpg

 

[GM54-120]

It would be nice to see a honest review on the new pellets to see if there claims are true. I know a guy on this forum that tests bullets, maybe we could get him to do a review?

Sent from my ME301T using Tapatalk

None are available yet as far as i can tell. They were just debuted at the ShotShow from what ive read. You can be certain the first reviews will be "sponsored" and more than likely glowing. I actually find the new round pellet from APP to be more interesting just because the crud ring is normally much less with the APP line of powders.

Ive seen so many of these compensated reviews from various places that its hard to believe any of them anymore. TB, RW and even some of the larger magazines are forever "tainted" in my mind because the reviews almost always follow the $$$$$$s and free stuff.

 

[Okie Hog]

Ive seen so many of these compensated reviews from various places that its hard to believe any of them anymore. TB, RW and even some of the larger magazines are forever "tainted" in my mind because the reviews almost always follow the $$$$$$s and free stuff.

This^^^^^. Honest reviews of guns and ammunition, especially muzzleloaders and their ammunition, are nearly impossible to find. There is simply too much free stuff floating around. The reviewers are courted with free guns, free ammunition and free hunting junkets to "test" the latest innovation. One bad review and the free stuff goes away.

i want to try the APP pellets. The old Clean Shot pellets were very powerful but extremely hard to light, even with a 209 primer. When boosted with five grains of granular powder they were awesome.

 

[GM54-120]

APP lists velocity of the round pellets. Another REAL review/test will be interesting. There is a video on youtube from Sep 20, 2016 so its not really that new.

 

[WPrather]

I just looked up the APP round pellets I didn’t even know they made them. I tried the APP square peg pellets and the 150gr magnum pellet. I had trouble with both of them getting them to light consistently and on a couple occasions getting them to light at all.

The 777 pellets no matter the weather or conditions I have hunted in I have never had a probablem with them. I personally have never seen a probablem with them every time I pull the trigger I know it will do what it’s supposed to do.

I know most of the guys that shoot muzzeloader all the time know but some new guys may not. When you swab between shots and you use a presatirated patch you have to squeeze all the juice out of it before running it down the barrel. You just want it damp not wet because it will run down in your Breech plug and fowl the breech and cause you probablems. Then one dry patch to make sure the barrels dry.

 

[Browndogz]

I know most of the guys that shoot muzzeloader all the time know but some new guys may not. When you swab between shots and you use a presatirated patch you have to squeeze all the juice out of it before running it down the barrel. You just want it damp not wet because it will run down in your Breech plug and fowl the breech and cause you probablems. Then one dry patch to make sure the barrels dry.

My swab is anything but saturated, I give it a lick to the patch, swab, and reload. I use tubes and loose rather than pellets and only know one guy who shoots pellets.

My POI is the same for a couple of shots without swabbing, so when hunting if a followup is needed I don't have to swab.

 

[GM54-120]

Mix ISO HEET and Windex 50/50. Make up some patches but squeeze out all the extra liquid. Store them in a air tight jar of some kind. The mix evaporates fast. You can use 91% isopropyl too but the ISO-HEET is nearly pure isopropanol.

 

[GM54-120]

Well now. The question was asked on another forum AND we now have a MSDS to compare. Or rather a updated MSDS for all Triple7 products.

Drum roll please.............................

Chemically speaking its the same stuff as all other Triple7 but now it cost you over a buck a shot for a 100gr equivalent load. 3 Firestar pellets are the 100gr equivalent and you get 60 in pack. So you get 20 shots.

$1.30 per shot at $25.99 a pack
$1.15 per shot at $22.99 a pack
Just for a reference BH209 for a similar load at $38 per bottle is around 52cents per shot if you get 73 shots per bottle. The original T7 pellets will set you back about 65-70cents per shot at current pricing from Cabelas and similar stores.

Hodgdon claims 3 Firestar pellets produce around 1750fps with a 250gr bullet and 1650fps with a 300gr bullet.
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uplo ... weight.pdf

https://www.hodgdon.com/triple-seven-firestar-pellets/
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uplo ... ds-new.pdf

 

[dbowling]

I shot a lot of pyrodex pellets back when they were 1st getting popular and I had a bunch of guns that would shoot one inch or a bit over one inch groups, T/C and Knight..so they can be or are just as accurate as loose depending on gun/bullet..
As far as crushing them never had any problems and always used firm pressure seating them but didn't put all my weight on ramrod either. With all that said I still prefer loose powder because it can be tweaked to get the absolute best accuracy, but for hunting pellets were always more then accurate enough even out to 165 yds which was the furthest I ever shot a deer with them.

As for these new pellets cant see 50 fps making a bit of difference and ignition time would be impossible for the normal person to tell any difference either.

 

[Busta]

$28.76 + 6% tax = $30.49 at Wally World for 60 Firestar Pellets.

$1.52 for a 3 Pellet load.
$1.02 for a 2 Pellet load.




$39.93 + 6% tax = $42.33 for 100 regular Triple Se7en Pellets at Wally World. $0.85 per 2 pellet, 100 grain Black Powder equivalent load. 50 shots Per Box.

It's hilarious when people ***** about Blackhorn 209 being expensive (which it is), while not batting an eye when buying Triple Se7en Pellets.

150 grains VOLUME Black Powder = 3 50 grain Triple Se7en Pellets = 120 grains (150 gr V reduced by 20% = 80%) VOLUME (84 grains WEIGHT) Blackhorn 209. These are the equivalents.

150 × 80% = 120


Blackhorn 209 is $36.86 + 6% tax = $39.07 at Wally World. 4375 grains WEIGHT in bottle. 100 grain VOLUME equivalent charge of Black Powder = 80 grains (reduced 20%) by VOLUME (56 grains by WEIGHT) of Blackhorn 209.

4375 grains WEIGHT (10 oz) ÷ 56 grains WEIGHT (100 gr Black Powder Equivalent) Blackhorn 209 = 78 (100 gr BP/2 pellet equivalent) loads per bottle.

$39.07 ÷ 78 = $0.50 per 100 grain VOLUME Black Powder/Pyrodex/2 Triple Seven Pellet equivalent load of Blackhorn 209.


When you go to 3 Pellet (150 grain VOLUME equivalent loads of Black Powder/Pyrodex) Triple Se7en Pellets, Blackhorn 209 really looks like a bargain.

3 Triple Se7en Pellets = $1.28 per shot. 33 shots Per Box, for a cost of $42.33!

120 grains VOLUME (84 grains WEIGHT) = $0.75 per shot. 52 shots Per Bottle, for a cost of $39 07!

In other words, it will cost you $3.26 more for the Box of Triple Se7en Pellets that nets you 28 less (100 gr equivalent) loads, or 19 less (150 gr equivalent) loads than a bottle of Blackhorn 209.

Looking at that from another angle it will cost you $66.30 for Triple Se7en Pellets to shoot the same number of 100 grain Volume Equivalent loads you can get from one $39.07 (including tax) 10 oz bottle of Blackhorn 209. Or, $66.56 for Triple Se7en Pellets to shoot the same number of 150 grain Volume Equivalent loads you can get from one $39.07 (including tax) 10 oz bottle of Blackhorn 209.

I think I'll save the $27.50 difference per bottle, skip the unsealed boxes that let moisture enter from day one, skip the crud ring, skip the spit patching, skip the associated cleaner and patch costs, and the HEADACHE!

Anyone care to crunch the numbers on the difference between the new Firestar Triple Se7en Pellets and Blackhorn 209? OK, you twisted my arm, but I promise it's going to hurt.

If GM's equivalent is correct, as in 3 Firestar Triple Se7en Pellets = 100 grain Volume Equivalent, you might need to sit down. Here goes!

$1.52 for one 3 Pellet Load = $118.56 (6 pellets short of 4 packs) for the 78 loads it would take to match the 100 grain (Black Powder) VOLUME Equivalent loads of Blackhorn 209 (reduced 20%) = 80 grain VOLUME (56 grains WEIGHT) in one 4375 grain (10 oz) bottle at a cost of $39.07. Or, a savings of $79.49 per bottle, skip the crud ring, skip the spit patching, skip the associated cleaner and patch costs, and the HEADACHE!

Even if it was 2 pellets of Firestar = 100 grains by VOLUME. $1.02 for one 2 Pellet load = $79.56 (2.6 packsof Firestar Pellets)for the 78 loads it would take to match the 100 grain (Black Powder) VOLUME Equivalent loads of Blackhorn 209 (reduced 20%) = 80 grain VOLUME (56 grains WEIGHT) in one 4375 grain (10 oz) bottle at a cost of $39.07. Or, a savings of $40.49 per bottle, skip the crud ring, skip the spit patching, skip the associated cleaner and patch costs, and the HEADACHE!

Anybody have a HEADACHE? Me neither! :mrgreen:

 

[dragonfly]

Oh! …..the math!! :shock:

 

[ENCORE50A]

For the.….. "average" …… hunter, who buys a box of pellets once a year, shoots maybe a dozen rounds, its just not expensive to them. They don't have to have a volume measure, or scales and such. They load the rifle with a couple pellets followed by a bullet and shoot it a few times, hunt with it, then clean it up and it sets in the safe, corner, or where ever until the following season.

Face it, there's only a slight few of us on this site, or many other sites for that matter, that shoot often or enough to pay very close attention to how much we're spending. I'm not saying everyone's loaded with money, just that for the "average hunter", a package of pellets isn't that costly.

If one was to shoot pellets and shoot them often, there are ways to save money. I shot pellets exclusively for the last 4+ years and never paid over $15.00 a box, for either the 50/50 or 50/60's. The key is, buy them by the case. That's considerabily cheaper than Wally World prices. But then again, the ....... "average....... hunter doesn't shoot more than a box, if a box, of pellets each year. How many times in a post have we seen someone ask, 'How old are your pellets?'


Now the BH209 shooters.......... only a few on this site shoot an entire bottle, let alone a dozen bottles each year. However, for those that may shoot a lot each year, 5#'s of BH is a heck of a lot cheaper than buying the same amount in bottles.

Now for cleanlyness between T7 and BH............ FROM MY RIFLE........... I could completely clean my rifle with five (5) patches when shooting T7. I can't clean it with double that amount shooting BH and it takes three times longer. When shooting T7, yes, I swabbed between each shot with one (1) patch. Now shooting BH, I'm still swabbing between shots, using three (3) patches.

IMO, cost is only relative depending on just how much and often someone shoots. For some the price of a box or even two of pellets, gives them all they need or want. For others who shoot often throughout the year, price does matter.

 

[Busta]

I was just giving an example of off the shelf prices that were available to everyone nationally. I realize that a smart shopper can purchase both powders for less.

It sounds like It must be a hassle for you to shoot Blackhorn 209, when will you be switching back to Triple Se7en Pellets? I don't seem to have those same problems. Maybe it's the rifle?

 

[ENCORE50A]

I was just giving an example of off the shelf prices that were available to everyone nationally. I realize that a smart shopper can purchase both powders for less.

It sounds like It must be a hassle for you to shoot Blackhorn 209, when will you be switching back to Triple Se7en Pellets? I don't seem to have those same problems. Maybe it's the rifle?

That was an awful lot of math...

The point is, for the average hunter pellet prices just don't matter that much. Average hunters most likely compromise 98% of the members on this site. Its probably quite safe to say, you could count on your fingers the number of members sending 100+ rounds each year from their muzzleloaders here.

Its unlikely that you're cleaning your muzzleloaders with just 5 patches when using BH. It wasn't but a year or two ago, it was mentioned on site, that no one knew of a rifle that could be cleaned with just 5 patches. A video followed cleaning with just 5 patches when using T7.

As far as the rifle, I can shoot and not have to swab between rounds. However you are not shooting the charges or the ranges, especially the range, that I'll be shooting. The proven in competition, best shots on this site, swab between shots with almost every rifle they compete with. I'm actually following the suggestions of Bestill (Jeff) for swabbing between shots. IMO following one of the best muzzleloader shooters in the Nation recommendations is probably a good thing.

Back to the point........... For most of the average hunters, buying a box or even two boxes of pellets a year isn't an issue, especially when that same group of hunters are likely to only shoot a dozen rounds each year. 2% of US, sometimes forget that the other 98% don't shoot as often. Hodgdon's sales pretty much indicate pellets are not that bad, or so many people wouldn't be hunting with them.

 

[dbowling]

While I like BH I believe 777 is easier to clean, even dry patching the barrel to get rid of residue before cleaning BH it still takes a lot more patches for me to get it clean then 777.
I actually think it takes almost as much time to clean BH as it does real black powder, I can clean my Knights shooting real black in about 5 minutes in a sink of really hot water, then run a couple dry patches then a alcohol patch, dry patch then lightly oil.. it can all be done in maybe 15 minutes.
My Buddy every year takes his Encore muzzleloader out shoots 3-4 shots to confirm zero using 777 pellets, kills 5-6 deer cleans it then puts it up till next year, he doesn't care how much pellets cost as that's the extent of his shooting thru out the year.

I was just giving an example of off the shelf prices that were available to everyone nationally. I realize that a smart shopper can purchase both powders for less.

It sounds like It must be a hassle for you to shoot Blackhorn 209, when will you be switching back to Triple Se7en Pellets? I don't seem to have those same problems. Maybe it's the rifle?

That was an awful lot of math...

The point is, for the average hunter pellet prices just don't matter that much. Average hunters most likely compromise 98% of the members on this site. Its probably quite safe to say, you could count on your fingers the number of members sending 100+ rounds each year from their muzzleloaders here.

Its unlikely that you're cleaning your muzzleloaders with just 5 patches when using BH. It wasn't but a year or two ago, it was mentioned on site, that no one knew of a rifle that could be cleaned with just 5 patches. A video followed cleaning with just 5 patches when using T7.

As far as the rifle, I can shoot and not have to swab between rounds. However you are not shooting the charges or the ranges, especially the range, that I'll be shooting. The proven in competition, best shots on this site, swab between shots with almost every rifle they compete with. I'm actually following the suggestions of Bestill (Jeff) for swabbing between shots. IMO following one of the best muzzleloader shooters in the Nation recommendations is probably a good thing.

Back to the point........... For most of the average hunters, buying a box or even two boxes of pellets a year isn't an issue, especially when that same group of hunters are likely to only shoot a dozen rounds each year. 2% of US, sometimes forget that the other 98% don't shoot as often. Hodgdon's sales pretty much indicate pellets are not that bad, or so many people wouldn't be hunting with them.

 

[Busta]

You're missing my point from the earlier post.

It's hilarious when people ***** about Blackhorn 209 being expensive (which it is), while not batting an eye when buying Triple Se7en Pellets.

I'm talking about the average Joe. I didn't do a cost analysis on a case or 5 pound jug. I did a cost analysis comparison of one 10 oz bottle of Blackhorn 209 that has an indefinite shelf life as far as we know, compared to pellets that don't.

I hear people ***** about the price of a bottle of Blackhorn 209 that costs less at a national chain store that will give them way more shots than a box of pellets. When I ask them what they are shooting, 95% say pellets. Just leaves me shaking my head.

Not everybody is going to understand, obviously!

 

[Idaholewis]

Awesome breakdown Busta :yeah:

 

[GM54-120]

Seems to me that you could buy a bottle of BH209, a spout for the bottle and a powder measure for better price per shot than the new pellets. Storage tubes are pretty much a wash because both powder types need some type of field storage.

$4.99 for the spout
https://www.cabelas.com/product/shootin ... ?slotId=10

$14.99 for the measure and you can get them cheaper.
https://www.cabelas.com/product/shootin ... ?slotId=14

$37.99 for the BH209
https://www.cabelas.com/product/shootin ... s?slotId=1

$58 plus tax for over 70 shots of a 100gr equivalent.