Old Hunter, New to Muzzleloaders

[gdcpony]

So 3 years ago a friend got my oldest an old beat up traditions 50 cal to hunt with. I played with it a little and kept it loaded to a light load of 50gr Pyrodex RS(by weight) and 250 sabot HP's. I never liked it much with its rusty bore and woeful (to a guy who has an H&R Ultra Slugger that does 1.2"@100yds) accuracy. I don't know if there is a way to save it with it's 4" groups. If there is, let me know please.

None the less my younger daughter took an amazing liking to it and has killed 3 deer with it out to 100yds. So as we consider her Xmas gift this year I spied a used CVA Optima in the store for a good price and put it in her hands. She loves it. Then on the same rack a Knight D.I.S.C. Extreme 45 cal for the same money. she was unable to decide between the two so now both are quietly tucked into the closet for the 25th. Her gun rack is officially full with a 20ga, .223, 22LR and bow as well.

However, there is now a few problems for me. I am no idiot mind you, I build guns (AR's, Mausers, and Savage), reload my own ammo, I coach shooting and archery, and used to compete in shooting matches. But I must admit that ML's are a huge black hole in my brain housing group. I have no clue about them really. I bought these on impulse because my daughter liked them and because I have a soft spot for an old Huntsman .45 I was handed in my youth and told to kill something. I know how to load them, and can take them apart.

I did some homework and found that the Extreme is very well thought of for accuracy, though most reference the 50 for that. The special Discs that it takes, I can't find around. I think the daughter will end up with this one (one was for me and one for her, but she doesn't know which is which yet) for recoil. Meanwhile, I am also wondering about the load for this gun. What would be a good load range for a 200gr Hornady Sabot? While your at it how do I know which discs to use for what with it?

Actually, I seem to be suffering a bit of confused on the way I should be measuring powder. I see references to "by volume" while I have been weighing mine via a reloading scale. I figure it is precise as I am only setting up 10 loads for a range day. Am I doing this right? If not, how do you all get a super precise load?

I will be working with the Optima as well to see if I can match my H&R with it. I am looking to kill at farther than it does with this and its record is 260yds. So give me an idea of how you all would do this if you don't mind. This takes a special priority this year as venison is our staple food (2 of my family get sick on beef) and I will be away for shotgun season for military duty this year. If I don't fill the freezer with my bow, the ML's will be important as heck this year. Any info you guys can offer I would appreciate.

Over all, I am looking for tips, info

 

[Hornet22savage]

Hello and welcome, Those two mighty fine ML's you got there. I personally am a Knight fan and have a DISC Elite in 45 cal. The only real difference between my Elite and you Extreme is the barrel and recoil lug. Plenty of good loads out there for the 45, 200 gr. SST, 195 gr. Barnes Expander, 185 gr. and 200 gr. Bloodlines sold by Knight made by Lehigh. Any of those over 90-115 gr. of powder by volume would do well to 200 yds. The light bullets lose a lot of steam at that distance. On to powder yes it is an industry standard to measure by volume, however if you know the conversion you can weigh them just know that on here most of us will state if a load was weighed vs. poured. I shoot BH209 which is the most powerful and best powder out there in my opinion. Once I find a load by volume that shoots well for me, I will measure out 10 charges and weigh them then take the average and go from there. The pyrodex you are using is one of the weakest powders out there and also one of the most corrosive, I would suggest you take some time and look at Triple Seven, Black Horn 209 and even Real Black powder. Not sure where you live but as for the DISC's I have seen them at Bass Pro Shops, you can also get them directly from Knight or at other places on the internet. I would highly suggest getting the bare primer conversion for the Knight and losing the DISC's all together. Hope this helps others will chime in.

 

[Tannhauser]

Here is what I use to measure powder:

It's made by Thompson Center. You move the plunger until it lines up with the # of grains (in my case, 80). Fill the tube with whatever powder (remember, the measurement is by volume, not mass), tap it, then swipe off any slight excess. There are all sorts of variations on this measure, but I like this one because it is clear, lightweight plastic. I will rub it down with a piece of dryer sheet to cut down on static.

 

[Tannhauser]

Edit: accidental double post.

 

[WV Hunter]

Welcome to the board, and congrats to your daughter! :yeah:

The .45 disc is a great gun! What Hornet 22 said is spot on. Your gun should be set up to use the red discs, and they are fine to start out with. The primer fits into them, and they slide onto the breechplug stud when you shut the bolt. They are fine, but many do like the bare primer setup as well. You can move to that later if you want. The red plastic jacket discs are readily available online all over and pretty cheap. Many knight shooters like the Winchester W209 primers. You can shoot any powder out of them just fine, I would suggest loose, not pellets. Cheaper and easier to fine tune loads. Many like Blackhorn 209, but the others will work fine.

For hunting, most folks shoot somewhere around 180-200gr saboted bullet with 80-120 gr powder. Its personal preference really. If it was me, I'd set up my daughter with probably 80gr powder (by volume) and either the Knight Bloodlines or Lehigh CF's. Either would be an amazing bullet that could be shot (and perform perfectly) with a lighter load. I would recommend the 185's over the 200's with the twist of that rifle. Either Knight's version 185 Bloodlines or the Lehigh Controlled Fracturing 185's Lehigh 185. Note that the Lehigh does NOT come with a sabot.

If you do some searching here on these bullets you will see some testing that has been done with them. Pretty amazing.

That said, there are alot of bullets you could use...200gr SST's are quite popular in the .45's, as are the Barnes 195's.

Measuring powder by volume is the industry standard. Brass or plastic is fine, the key is to be consistent in your measuring.


Regarding your old rusty gun...I would soak it good with kroil or similar, then wire brush it real good. Then give it a bunch of swabs with JB bore paste. You can only salvage so much. Sounds like it still works fine, doing that should at least help the bore condition some.

Plug in, this is a great board with lots of knowledgeable and friendly folks!

 

[gdcpony]

Thanks for the advice. Ok, so as I have since acquired some 777fg, I guess I will be trying that out. I found a conversion on line for weight and so I will be cutting it back and trying some loads as soon as i get these elusive discs. None around locally. not at dicks, the fin, kames, or anywhere else in Canton, OH. anyone local enough to know of a hidden source.

Kenzie will be loving the .45 especially with the Konus 7249, I put on it (i will be swapping to see though mounts though later.) I put the same on the soon to be mine CVA. Guess we will be having some fun.

 

[ShawnT]

You might be better trying online at the moment. Midway has them.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/436420 ... ack-of-100

 

[gdcpony]

ordered. i want scopes! I got mine out today and it way out shot my ability with irons.