Looking for advice/input

[bow_hunter44]

Hello all y'all out there in muzzle loader world. I'd like your input. I have a Knight MK-85 in 54 caliber and I'm considering selling it. However, after getting it all checked out the past few days, I shouldered it and it sure does 'come up' nice and holds well. But, as I recall, I had trouble with sabots. If memory serves correctly, it would shoot a few well and then throw one out into the boonies for no apparent reason. I don't recall the same issue with 'regular' bullets (Hornady Great Plains/Buffalo Bullets).

I'm primarily a bow hunter, so I don't feel compelled to get a 700 yard muzzle loader. That being the case, the gun I currently would fill the bill for any hunting I would do with a muzzle loader. But there is that nagging lack of confidence in the gun caused by it throwing one out into the boonies for no apparent reason.

Have any of y'all had any similar experience with that model gun? I know 54 caliber never caught on, for what ever reason. Are the smaller calibers that much better? Is it worth trading my 54 for a different caliber?

I know many of those questions are difficult to answer as they are personal preference. But any input I could get would be great.

For reference, in terms of hunting. I have been to Africa on four different hunts, and spent ~ 45 days looking through, for all intents and purposes, a hole in a tent. The last time I was there a friend of mine went along, a rifle hunter. I loved hearing his stories of 'the chase', and seeing Africa - a totally different experience than looking through a hole in a tent (blind). I'm likely to go back with him, as an observer, just to experience Africa other than sitting in a blind. It occurs to me that perhaps my muzzle loader might provide a nice balance between the two methods of hunting....

 

[dbowling]

If it shoots well then doesn't could be loading inconsistencies(loading pressure) or it needs to be swabbed every shot or other shot.. the .54 is just as accurate as an other caliber.. I meant try purple mmp sabot not orange and Barnes expander bullet, had a senior moment sorry for bad info.
Also try different powder charges in 5 gr increments until you hit on one it likes..
I gave my MK-85 .54 to a friends 15 yr old son who absolutely loves the gun.
Also if your going to shoot conical get some Bull shop or No Excuse.

Post edited w/correct info now.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I had one when the first came out and sold it about 6yrs ago.
For me............. 120grs of 2F and the 325gr Barnes Expander MZ bullets. It was extremely accurate and I took many whitetail with that combination.
If I still had the rifle, I'd still be shooting the same charge and bullet.

 

[Scotts98rt]

I still have one. 120gr of 2fg it loves. Pink harvester sabot 250 ptx pistol bullets. I would not get rid of it.

 

[bow_hunter44]

Thanks for the responses! What, pray tell is 2F or 2FG? I assume it is some kind of powder, but I've never heard of it. I have (and used) Pyrodex and Hogden RS. I also have some Pyrodex P. It looks like some new powder is in my future.

What does one do with Pyrodex and Hogden RS or P powder? Does anyone use that stuff anymore?

I also have 50 or so Hornady 44 cal. XTP bullets (hollow point) and some sabots (Modern Muzzleloader and Muzzleload Magnum Products). Does anyone use those these days? I suspected that sabot technology had improved since 30 years ago.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Thanks for the responses! What, pray tell is 2F or 2FG? I assume it is some kind of powder, but I've never heard of it. I have (and used) Pyrodex and Hogden RS. I also have some Pyrodex P. It looks like some new powder is in my future.

What does one do with Pyrodex and Hogden RS or P powder? Does anyone use that stuff anymore?

I also have 50 or so Hornady 44 cal. XTP bullets (hollow point) and some sabots (Modern Muzzleloader and Muzzleload Magnum Products). Does anyone use those these days? I suspected that sabot technology had improved since 30 years ago.

2f or 2fg grain is finer than 1f. 3f is finer than 2f. 4f is finer than 3f. Different coarsness black powder or subsitutes can affect performance. Most use 2f or 3f. 3f usually in bores .45 or smaller. 4f is somethimes used in the pan on flintlocks.
Some people still use pyrodex. I have a jar of it but never used it. Kind of a 'just in case' or someday i may try it out.
MMP sabots are still quite popular. But the plastics used have definitely improved.

 

[bow_hunter44]

2f or 2fg grain is finer than 1f. 3f is finer than 2f. 4f is finer than 3f. Different coarsness black powder or subsitutes can affect performance. Most use 2f or 3f. 3f usually in bores .45 or smaller. 4f is somethimes used in the pan on flintlocks.
Some people still use pyrodex. I have a jar of it but never used it. Kind of a 'just in case' or someday i may try it out.
MMP sabots are still quite popular. But the plastics used have definitely improved.

Your description of particle size of the powder makes sense. Gracias. The question becomes, who makes the powders these days? I realized after I posted the last response that one of the sabots I had was MMP. Don't get much past me!

 

[Scotts98rt]

What I would do is keep a log at the range and keep track of the flyers. What number were they? Example 3 rd. shot typically goes wild. Clean every 2nd. If there is seemingly no pattern. You may have a bad scope, possibly loose base or rings.

 

[bow_hunter44]

What I would do is keep a log at the range and keep track of the flyers. What number were they? Example 3 rd. shot typically goes wild. Clean every 2nd. If there is seemingly no pattern. You may have a bad scope, possibly loose base or rings.

Good idea, although scope? Back when I last hunted with a muzzle loader scopes were illegal!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Still are someplaces. Here in Mich anything goes now. As for black powders theres Goex, Swiss, Schuetzen probably some others. Subs theres alway Triple Seven and Pyrodex(loose or pelletized), Shockeys and a few others. Now theres Blackhorn 209 also which is getting popular with inline shooters, me included. Probably youll use real black or T7 or Pyrodex in your mk85, i imagine. I shoot some sabots from Harvester but mainly i cast my own bullets and shoot them sized to the bore. Still avoiding the question of whether or not it's cheaper .

 

[WV Hunter]

Keep it! They are excellent rifles!

I have a stainless .54 MK that is awesome. I use 100gr Pyrodex RS, with .50/325gr Speer JHP bullets in purple sabot. It will stack them at 50ys, and shoots very well at 100. I use the #11 ignition, and a scope. Haven't shot it in a while, maybe I'll break it out next season

 

[sdporter]

What does one do with Pyrodex and Hogden RS or P powder? Does anyone use that stuff anymore?

I still use both. The RS (rifle/shotgun) would be close to a 2F, while the P (pistol) would be close to a 3F in grain size. I agree with paying attention to which shot is flying, might be you only get so many before you are forced to swab. Also picking up your sabots after each shot, can give you a good indication of what is happening, plus it gives the barrel an extra little bit to cool down. Sabots don’t like heat, so maybe the way your shooting them, in other words the speed at which you reload and fire, could be a contributor. I try and shoot two guns while I’m at the range, alternating every shot to give a little extra cool down time.

 

[dbowling]

Went back and edited my post, gave you info for my .50 instead of .54, surprised no one caught it.. sorry.

 

[SuperKirby]

I think most of your questions have been answered so far, but I would add that if you're shooting .44 caliber bullets in a .54 that's likely a lot of your problem. In general, the thicker the sabot the more accuracy issues you'll have. I believe for .54 most use a .458 or .50 bullet in corresponding sabot. I've not shot a .54 MK-85 but if I had one I do believe I'd keep it. Besides, Pyrodex and occasionally Triple 7 are about the only powders you can currently find.

 

[ihookem]

In my experience of the 4 muzzleloaders I have, if you dont clean the barrel every few shots , you will not get the accuracy most muzzleloaders expect . I started with a TC Encore and was not real happy with it. I get a TC Impact and was not happy with it. Both had scopes on them too. I started getting exceptable groups when i payed much more attention to cleaning the barrel every shot and loaded it constantly the same pressure when pushing down the bullet on the powder. Now days, I dont even shoot the Encore and Impact. . I have a TC Hawken and a TC Renegade . I only shoot the side locks now. The same goes for them . I now use real black powder on the Hawken and Renegade . As always , you need to at least put down a damp patch every shot for best groups. For about the same accuracy, you can swab every other shot , but by the 3rd or 4th shot, you will loose accuracy , and by the 6th or 7th shot, they are basically all over the place if you doth clean the barrel . There is nothing wrong with your gun.

 

[Donald 41]

Hello all y'all out there in muzzle loader world. I'd like your input. I have a Knight MK-85 in 54 caliber and I'm considering selling it. However, after getting it all checked out the past few days, I shouldered it and it sure does 'come up' nice and holds well. But, as I recall, I had trouble with sabots. If memory serves correctly, it would shoot a few well and then throw one out into the boonies for no apparent reason. I don't recall the same issue with 'regular' bullets (Hornady Great Plains/Buffalo Bullets).

I'm primarily a bow hunter, so I don't feel compelled to get a 700 yard muzzle loader. That being the case, the gun I currently would fill the bill for any hunting I would do with a muzzle loader. But there is that nagging lack of confidence in the gun caused by it throwing one out into the boonies for no apparent reason.

Have any of y'all had any similar experience with that model gun? I know 54 caliber never caught on, for what ever reason. Are the smaller calibers that much better? Is it worth trading my 54 for a different caliber?

I know many of those questions are difficult to answer as they are personal preference. But any input I could get would be great.

For reference, in terms of hunting. I have been to Africa on four different hunts, and spent ~ 45 days looking through, for all intents and purposes, a hole in a tent. The last time I was there a friend of mine went along, a rifle hunter. I loved hearing his stories of 'the chase', and seeing Africa - a totally different experience than looking through a hole in a tent (blind). I'm likely to go back with him, as an observer, just to experience Africa other than sitting in a blind. It occurs to me that perhaps my muzzle loader might provide a nice balance between the two methods of hunting....

Knight muzzleloader are really good guns I would keep it

 

[bow_hunter44]

Thanks so much for all of your replies! Y'all have convinced me, I'll keep the gun. Now I most likely should spend some time in the 'new to muzzleloading' sub forum here. The answers to many of my questions were likely already posted. Plus, now I have the challenge of finding the combination of powder, charge, bullet/sabot that works best in the gun. Should prove to be fun! In addition to the new to muzzleloading sub forum, I'll most likely drive y'all to drink with a barrage of questions!

 

[ShawnT]

Hodgdon is the maker of Pyrodex and 777. Pyrodex come is in at least 3 formulas, P is for Pistol (Think 3F) and small caliber rifles like the .32cal, RS and Select are for Rifle/shotguns and is the equivalent of 2F. 777 come sin 2F and 3F designations.

The Purple MMP sabot and the Speer .500dia 325gn HP are a great combination that shot in my MK-85 and MK-95 54 cals. That is the Bullet that Tony Knight would ship with the rifles. Another good bullet for target and deer would be the Rainier .500dia 335gnHP. Barnes Expanders are another good bullet. Swab between shots will help with loading and accuracy when using sabots too. Also bear in mind that if you load and shoot several in a row and get the bore hot then that could cause some to fly out of your group too.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Whats the twist rate on those mk85 .54s? Seems like there were some rare ones with 1in20" but whats the more common twist?

 

[bow_hunter44]

Whats the twist rate on those mk85 .54s? Seems like there were some rare ones with 1in20" but whats the more common twist?

I have no idea. The identifier on mine is 1986, I don't know if that is the serial number or the year it was made. If it was the year of make, there is no apparent serial number. All that to say, perhaps there is someone in the know about the twist rate on the barrel of that particular vintage and caliber gun, but is isn't me!