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I think not only did they bring their eastern rifles but many of them used the Trade Gun because it was inexpensive and available.
It doesn't look like burlesontom has visited this forum since Sep 20, 2019, but it's probably worth summarizing for others that have and will look at this thread.
.But newer research is swinging the pendulum back towards the middle..... The new stuff doesn't negate Hanson's research, just modifies some of his conclusions a little..... And I agree that "learning more was (is) the whole premise of the thread".
Welcome back, burlesontom. Sorry about your health issues. I have some good friends that are dealing with health issues and it's sad to see. I can't do much but offer support and spend some time with them.
I wasn't intending to imply that you personally "got things" wrong. Just that a lot of the info on the internet like the website you linked is based on old research and is therefore a little out dated.
Most of the literature about Hawken rifles from George Ruxton to John Baird romanticized the Hawken rifle and built up a lot of myths about them. Charles E. Hanson Jr. in The Hawken Rifle may have taken the pendulum too far the other way, at least that is how a lot of people interpreted it. But newer research is swinging the pendulum back towards the middle. J&S Hawken rifles were present in the mountains earlier than Hanson thought and in greater numbers. The new stuff doesn't negate Hanson's research, just modifies some of his conclusions a little. Hanson was aware of some of it before he died and applauded it. Just as Baird applauded Hanson's book when it first came out.
And I agree that "learning more was (is) the whole premise of the thread".
I reread this thread often. If I were to contract another rifle, GRRW Leman Indian Trade Rifle. Cool and a rare GRRW model.H.E. Leman guns: Trade Rifles, Indian Trade Rifles and NW Trade Guns covered a lot of what was being used. Charles E. Hanson, Jr. showed me a late Leman NW Trade Gun that was still in flint 30 years way past the flintlock's prime (the paperwork showed it was purchased as is in the mid 1850's). Many of those that lived in the hills and mountains weren't interested in percussion guns, they could alway find rocks that would spark, percussion caps were questionable into the 1860's according to Hanson.
I have an original late H.E. Leman fullstock percussion 36 inch barrel in.50 caliber. Also have a original H.E. Leman halfstock percussion 30 inch barrel in .52 caliber. We used both of these for examples for GRRW Collector Association Leman guns.
GRRW LEMAN INDIAN TRADE RIFLE
I have a Leman flinter from TVM, great rifle and well made. I live near Natches, personally visited them. Great folks. MikeI hope you post some pictures of the gun when you get it.
After the stories, books and movies you would think Hawken guns were everywhere. But they weren't. They were in the deep minority compared to the other guns available. And it was surprising how many flintlock guns were ordered from Leman compared to the cap lock guns even as late as the 1860s. And for the price of one Hawken you could buy 4-6 Leman rifles.
I have been giving the Leman rifle at TVM a good looking at. Its a nice no frills rifle and that what I like. Will I get one? Who knows. I have to think about it. :scratch:
Could you post a link to that auction site?.
Just missed on an original later H.E. Leman percussion rifle on one of the antique dealers sites .....
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I believe members of the AMMA had a lot to do with getting equipment particulars and use right, nothing to do with the story line though."They got it right in the movie The Revenant. Nothing but longrifle flintlocks in that movie".
The guns and gear was about the only thing they got right in the movie. The time of year, the story and most everything else was a farce. Too bad. That story had the potential to be the best mountain man movie ever made.
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