Brown Bear and the 10 ML-II

[VENISONEATR]

I have recently been corresponding with an outfitter with whom I have with hunted in the past. This particular outfitter happens to run his business on Kodiak. I have hunted with him there for brown bears, goats, and blacktail deer.
I am tentatively scheduling a second brown bear hunt and I am considering going on the hunt with the ML-II.
I have no doubts about its capability, but my concerns are with weather problems and the guns functionability with the harsh climate.
It is not out of the realm of possibility to be spending 10 days in a pup tent with freeze dried food, sleeping bag and gun.
My question to the board is... would you consider doing a hunt like this with the gun??? what precautions would you take (aside from load development and weapon familiarity)???
Kodiak Island hosts a rain festival every year it starts on January 1st and it ends on December 31st.
I thank you all for your responses in advance..

Jim B.

 

[Blue-Dot-37.5]

While I haven't hunted under those extreme conditions, I have hunted all day in a pretty good rain, and never unloaded the gun. When I fired it a few days later, it fired as if I had just loaded it. ML-I, CCI 209M Primers, 4759 powder, Wonder Wad, 250 gr. SST. I usually leave the gun on the screened in enclosed back porch during hunting season. It has a roof, but the temps fluctuate up and down accoring to the temps outside. I found that my blued model (ML-I) rusts pretty quickly without a daily dose of gun oil or equiv.

 

[VENISONEATR]

I will not only have to worry about the load in the guns susceptibility to moisture, but whatever other powder I will be carrying. The vials I purchased from RW for premeasured loads should be sufficient. What makes this deal more difficult is the tent camping. If it were a lodge hunt I could care for things properly. Everything I will need will have to be carried in on my back.
I should mention that my guide will be backing me up with a .416 Remington should things go wrong.

 

[peteo]

Venisoneatr,
What a quandry! I wish I had my mind clouded up with all those important decisions. My gut thought is take the ML. I think most of your opportunities will be see and stalk. In the event of a problem your guide will have the ability to deal with it.
I am reminded of a story about a guy that went brown bear hunting with a pistol when he returned from his trip his friends asked him if he had any good luck. Yes tons of it he replied I did not see any.
Sounds like a great trip. It would probably be a good idea to start a regimen of cross country running at least a month before the hunt. Remember all you have to do is out pace the guide.

 

[VENISONEATR]

It's funny you should say that last year goat hunting we got charged by a sow with a cub. She covered the 300 yds. between us in about 2 minutes!!
A warning shot in the air never even slowed her down...!!!

 

[big6x6]

My question to the board is... would you consider doing a hunt like this with the gun???

A B S O L U T E L Y

When I hunt, I hunt with a muzzleloader, PERIOD! I'd probably use a 300gr Barnes Expander and a stiff load of 5744. How could you go wrong here? I'd do it in a minute.

BTW...The guide WILL have a backup .416, RIGHT? :shock:

 

[VENISONEATR]

Yes Chuck and I've seen what that thing does to the bears!!! Very impressive cartridge. One thing for sure though, when you plunk down that kinda dough for a hunt you want to know the kill was your's and your's alone.
So you think a 300 Gr. Expander huh. I was thinking the 300 Gr BX in the .458 configuration.

 

[big6x6]

Yes Chuck and I've seen what that thing does to the bears!!!

For EMERGENCY use ONLY!

I was thinking the 300 Gr BX in the .458 configuration.

That's okay with me! 8) I like a 325gr Swift A-Frame .452 as well.

Lets consider I get to go with you BUT I take my Remington KS .338 Mag using RL-19 and a 250gr Swift A-Frame. It's most accurate around 2650fps with that bullet. That's in the high 3800s ftlbs of enery at the muzzle. 2300fps and the Barnes 300gr will give you 3523ftlbs! :shock: I don't think you'd have ANYTHING to worry about!

 

[VENISONEATR]

The last time I was chasing those big brown bears around the island I had my .358 Norma Magnum stuffed with enough RL15 to move a 280 Gr. A-Frame around the same speed as your little .338 bullet.
You are more than welcome to join us. Nugbuk and I are in the process of ironing out the details. PM me if you want the details... Super hard working outfitter in a superb area... I wont sugar coat it though, it is a super strenuous hunt.

 

[Anonymous]

So you think a 300 Gr. Expander huh. I was thinking the 300 Gr BX in the .458 configuration.

If you can get better groups than I can with it.

The 350 gr. Barnes X .458 shoots lights out. Aren't we talking the possibility of a 9-1/2 foot bear? :shock:

 

[Grouse]

I would use a Savage with out doubt. The only powder i would use would be 5744. Bullet i'm not sure. Maybe a 300grn XTP. 340grn DeadCenter might be a better choice.

 

[VENISONEATR]

Aren't we talking the possibility of a 9-1/2 foot bear? :shock:

Yes, Sir God willing...

The only powder i would use would be 5744.

I was thinking either 5744 or 2015. Would you even consider 2015 Grouse???

 

[Grouse]

Would you even consider 2015 Grouse???

No way, no chance, wouldnt even consider it. 5744 is 100% reliable in my opinion.

 

[VENISONEATR]

Thanks... I'll keep that in mind during load development.

 

[Grouse]

Thanks... I'll keep that in mind during load development.

Honestly i never tried it. Right now 5744 is all i need.

 

[Anonymous]

Grouse wouldn't-- likely because he has never ever seen AA2015, much less shot it. :?

I'd sure use it-- with a 350 gr. bullet. :shock:

 

[VENISONEATR]

I guess that's a good question for Randy. Given a chosen well constructed bullet, capable of killing a brown bear, that exhibits close ballitics i.e. velocity/grouping being propelled by either 2015 or 5744, which propellant would you choose for extended moisture laden conditions? And more importantly, why?

 

[Anonymous]

The powder you use is determined more by projectile weight than any other factor-- obviously, any smokeless is better than BP / T7 / other moisture-suckers.

For some reason, though, people expect a bit more from smokeless powder than they really should, the proper storage conditions being listed in any manual. Powder bottles should be resealed after dispensing powder, just as directed by all powder manufacturers and all reloading manuals, for just that reason.

If you want reliability, just shoot out your load at the end of every day. A sabot is a good seal, but not a perfect one. If you decap your gun, there is yet another migration path for moisture, sweating, etc.

Some guys do keep their Savages loaded for days, and they go bang. They are lucky. It is a all or nothing situation.

If they don't, it should be no surprise at all. With the Savage, there is no good reason not to shoot out your load at the end of the day.

 

[VENISONEATR]

That's good advice and I appreciate it. I have never been one to keep a muzzleloader loaded. The state of NJ allows hunters to travel with a gun loaded but NOT capped in their vehicle.
The only impedement to discharging the weapon daily would be alerting game. My last go round on Kodiak chasing bears, the guide discouraged me from shining my headlamp towards the horizon at night while camping.
He would keep telling me "keep your head down while moving around camp". I could imagine the look of disdain from him as I shot the gun off each evening while eating our freeze dried

 

[Anonymous]

I have never been one to keep a muzzleloader loaded.

I can't really grasp the concept-- either a gun is unloaded, or it isn't as far as I'm concerned.

As far as powder-- I've had a couple of folks "complain" that their Savages did not shoot to the same point of aim, 3 months after being loaded. In / out of heat, warm days / cool nights. I'm amazed they shot at all.

If I absolutely knew that I would be hunting in rain for days, and there was no possibility of discharging the weapon (real or imagined)-- all I can tell you is what I would do for that type of hunt.

I'd use AA2015 or RL-7 pushing a 350 gr. Barnes .458 X bullet. I'd use Federal 209A primers, and I would have an MMP sub base over the powder charge. There would be a condom / finger cot over the muzzle, and the gun would stay both loaded and primed at all times.