Brown Bear and the 10 ML-II

[VENISONEATR]

Now that is the answer I was looking for!!!
Thank you very much!
Jim B.
PS Wanna come along?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm guessing this is "2nd mortgage" value priced? :cry:

 

[VENISONEATR]

It would be a tax write off... at least for you, I'm a mechanic so there is no way I can explain to the IRS( :evil: ) that it's a business trip... If you want the pertinent details let me know.
Thanks for your help... I'm sure I will have some load development questions for you all in the upcoming months. I just ordered 2 boxes of Barnes-X 350 gr. Unfortunately I only have 2 pounds of the old style AA2015. I'm sure I'll burn that up testing

 

[Anonymous]

I've mentioned it before, but:

Lastly, here is a loading that exceeds my recoil comfort level, but allows the use of true 350 gr. rifle bullets-in this case, the Barnes "X" bullet, for extremely tough game:

It begins to more fully exploit the versatility of the Savage 10ML-II, and uses Accurate Arms 2015-that achieves a "balanced load" with 350 gr. bullets. The same MMP .458 orange sabot is employed, and again it has impressive accuracy. Our prediction does not break even 25,000 PSI peak pressure-yet, this load develops over a TON of energy, at 250 yards.

 

[VENISONEATR]

Was a MMP sub-base employed??? Or did you recommend that for moisture prevention only????

 

[Anonymous]

No, not in the above. That would just be for all-weather proofing, and I'd need to add the weight of the sub-base to bullet and sabot weight to give you a pressure curve more indicative. It does not change much.

It will never be exact gun to gun, but I'm within 5% (actually 3% in most cases). I'm always very, very, very cautious on these things. That load is less pressure, substantially, than any std. Savage recommended load. About half of the barrel proof. I don't begin to push envelopes, or even lick them. :shock:

 

[Redclub]

I was up in Alaska caribou hunting not far from Kodiak and you cannot believe the wind and rain. We had to use our guns to hold the tent up one nite. I seen a Brown bear one morning when I got out of the tent and my 300 wthby. looked awfully small. He looked like a bison. Having said that I would do it in an instant with a ML providing you have a GOOD backup
Redclub

 

[VENISONEATR]

Where were you hunting RedClub? On the Penninsula? The Penninsula gets some very harsh weather and has lots of brown bears that are known for tormenting caribou and moose hunters on a daily basis. I did a do it yourself hunt some years back for caribou. We experienced 80 mph winds one night that snapped our tent poles. Nothing to do but hunker in and wait for it to pass. It was an experience I will never forget.

 

[Blue-Dot-37.5]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather change the primer out every night with a fired one rather than keep a live primer in the breechplug with the gun cocked and powder in the "chamber".

RW: Would a Wonder Wad (with it's lube) keep the powder sealed any better (or worse) than a Sub-base under the sabot?

 

[Redclub]

WE took a charter plane out of King Salmon. They dropped us off with our equipment. I sold a pup to a guy from Anchorage He liked the pup so much he took me and a friend out to chase caribou (He picked up the tab)
It was a great experience .It would rain ,then the sun would come out,rainbows, then rain. always wind. Several times we had to stay in the tent to keep it from blowing away. Even with that I would love to go back.
The guy from Alaska had a bear permit but by the time he got out of the tent the bear was heading for parts unknown. There were bear trails all over. Several times my rifle was not on my shoulder. Walking the trails through high grass tests your will. The year before The bears ate all there caribou. I didn't believe it until I went up there. The Alaskan always carried a pistol on him even just to go out of the tent. We did this on our own ,and again it was great, Probably saw 5000 caribou. I wish I could afford to do what you are doing.
Redclub

 

[VENISONEATR]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather change the primer out every night with a fired one rather than keep a live primer in the breechplug with the gun cocked and powder in the "chamber".

I was thinking about that myself. Guides are super paranoid when it come to loaded guns and rightly so. Using a fired primer as a seal is a good idea from the safety stand point of things.
All things considered, I think the primer is the weak link in the ignition chain, given these kind of conditions.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather change the primer out every night with a fired one rather than keep a live primer in the breechplug with the gun cocked and powder in the "chamber".

RW: Would a Wonder Wad (with it's lube) keep the powder sealed any better (or worse) than a Sub-base under the sabot?

Guns don't work so well when not loaded. I find it quite easy to treat "every gun as if they were loaded"-- when they are. :shock: I have no idea why a loaded gun would be handled any differently than a loaded one, and don't see what that has to do with safety.

With an Accu-trigger Savage, it is quite easy to disable it: point in a safe direction, pull on the side of the trigger, you'll hear the Accu-Springs disable the action. That's as disabled as you can get, but still no excuse to handle the gun any differently.

I'd suspect worse-- stick some Crisco on some powder, leave it set for a while, and try to burn it. I guess the saying, "Keep your powder dry," came from somewhere.

 

[Rifleman]

I guess I have a different take on this whole thing. For sure there is a real challenge to taking a brownie with a muzzleloader or even a bow. But I have had enough close calls in my life that I just would not want to count on the courage, shooting ability, and a hundred other variables that come into play, of a guide. Not judging this mans character at all, but in the experiences of my life dealing with bad actors in prison, industrial fires and other risky adventures, I have seen fellas who I thought would stand with me, freeze, flee, or just foul up. I saw a brownie when I went to Alaska a few years back and was just amazed at the size of thing, the power of one is well documented. With all that said I doubt I would be willing to hunt brownies with anything less then a .458 mag or bigger in a package I was very familiar with and that was ultra- reliable. Even then it is not a sure thing. People die hunting brownies. That is a fact. I am not afraid to do it, but you can be sure this little fat Rifleman would be shooting a repeating cannon.

 

[VENISONEATR]

I wholeheartedly respect your view Dwight. I have been within 25 yards of a grizzly and 15 yards of a brown bear. During these 2 experiences the large repeating cannon in my hands still felt inadequate.
I'm not trying to sound like a world traveling big game hunter because I'm not.
The one thing I am though is an adrenaline junky.
I am just testing the waters so to speak and seeing if others would consider such a venture with the finest muzzleloader I have ever laid hands on. I will admit I am seriously considering it. Because essentially you have a single shot rifle the equivalent of .458 Win Mag.
I haven't talked about any of this with the outfitter and he may not even allow it.
He laughs when guys talk to him about going with a bow. He says, "sure you can go with a bow, let me go dust mine off so I can back you up!!!"
They change their minds real quick....

 

[Grouse]

I am not afraid to do it, but you can be sure this little fat Rifleman would be shooting a repeating cannon.

Savage all the way. :arrow:

 

[Loggy]

Jim,

Per my read of your thread I assume you never killed a Brown Bear in AK or elsewheres?

If my assumption is correct, based upon my AK fishing experience per fly in tent camps etc of weather extremities etc. ...I would opt out of taking your 10 ML if never hunted AK with a ML. You have been there so U certainly know whut I'm talkin about. I would start out in AK MLin some lessor species before browns. I killed alot of black in quebec etc and they are good trainin wheels. :lol:

Personally, i would want to have extensive & sustained field and killing xperience with my 10 ML before carrying such into the Big League. I have spent alot time in AK fishing and its one of the tuffest climates around to fish or hunt when packing. I work with and have shared stories with those that have killed alot of brown bear.

If ur gonna drop a few grand in a hunt of a lifetime i would likely carry a 338 on up. I have killed a buck and a hog with my 10 ML but no way in hell would be comforatable in carrying it to AK on a Brown Bear hunt. I would opt for a few baited blacks etc before.

I think you are fairly new to the 10 ML Jim with limited kill experience with it...... as myself, so thats why I have offered this opinion. If I am wrong, I certainly apologize and please correct the record. Such comment merely based on my read of ur smokeless etc. posts....nutin else.

 

[VENISONEATR]

Loggy point taken, and I truly appreciate your straight shootin' "fatherly" advice which will weigh heavily in my decision. Thank you for weighing in on the subject. You are correct, I have never killed a brown bear, I have looked down the bore of a rifle at a highly agitated sow at 15 paces and I do know what a formidable beast it is. Unbelievably, guys do it with a bow every year!!
Interesting to note that it's a pretty damn even split in opinions, amongst the more senior members of the board, on whether or not to hunt a brown bear with the Savage.

 

[Grouse]

VENISONEATR, by no means substitute accuracy. If you got your Savage shooting around an 1" i see no problem at all. I believe Randy told me that for Dangerous game the sight in is 5 inches high??? That will be something to consider no matter which gun you take.

 

[Rifleman]

Well look at is this way.

Take a muzzeloader and I am right = Dead JIm
Take a repeater and I am wrong= Still a dead bear

 

[Anonymous]

Well look at is this way.

Take a muzzeloader and I am right = Dead JIm
Take a repeater and I am wrong= Still a dead bear

When do you think the last recorded incident of a brown bear killing a guided hunter in North America happened? :?