weight vs. volume

[ultratec00]

This has probably come up before, but who weighs and who does volume when loading? I was considering weighing each charge, but the technician at HODGDON said do NOT weigh 777, volume only. Supposedly the weight may change per lot of powder.

With that in mind, I bought an extra powder measure strictly for ML. It's set up to throw 100, 110, and 120 gr of 777. Not sure about weight, but the volume is consistant from throw to throw.

Which brings up another subject, volume. What is the true volume, settled or unsettled? The volume of a charge can change up to 5 grains when the powder settles. Example: when I throw a 100 gr volume, first measurement is 105. A couple taps and the powder will settle to 100.

 

[big6x6]

Which brings up another subject, volume. What is the true volume, settled or unsettled? The volume of a charge can change up to 5 grains when the powder settles.

You've just opened up a can of worms! :lol:

For ME....my BEST accuracy using Triple Se7en comes from WEIGHED charges(Remember VOLUME charges and WEIGHED charges are NOT equivalent) OR pellets. Now it also depends on how much accuracy you NEED. If your shots are mostly within 100yds(probably farther) or so...using a volumetric powder measure is just fine. If looking for the absolutely best accuracy I weigh...if not which is USUALLY the case with Triple Se7en guns...I use a see-thru volumetric measure.

 

[ultratec00]

If looking for the absolutely best accuracy I weigh...if not which is USUALLY the case with Triple Se7en guns...I use a see-thru volumetric measure.

I expect 1.5" @ 100 yards. Haven't had many issues meeting that accuracy using thrown charges. May take some tinkering working up the right load, but I can usually get under 1.5". I'll have to weigh some charges and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Underclocked]

Throw three charges by volume from a given can of powder then weigh them and average the resultant weights.

Use that as a reference for weighing your charges. FFg Triple7 has been compared for weight-to-volume ratio by a number of shooters from across the country. The result is remarkably consistent with that powder: volume X .8 = ~weight. [ONLY FOR FFg TripleSeven!]

If a person establishes his own reference weight for each can of powder, it seems to me you could only enhance accuracy. I shoot using both methods of establishing charge, depending upon how lazy I am on a given day.

As to tapped vs untapped, that doesn't matter all so far as your own use so long as you do it the same way each time. When communicating a load to others, your method could make significant difference (so just specify).

Seems a good idea to me to establish your weighed charges using a volume of powder obtained from your own volumetric measure - that way if you ran out of weighed charges you could still come very close to duplication with the powder measure.

 

[ultratec00]

Seems a good idea to me to establish your weighed charges using a volume of powder obtained from your own volumetric measure - that way if you ran out of weighed charges you could still come very close to duplication with the powder measure.

2F 777 seems to throw a consistant charge. If it were courser, would probably make a difference. Some rifle powders are too large to throw a consistant charge, which is the reason for measuring every load. I'll measure a few throws, but would expect there would not be much of a weight deviance between charges (+/- .1 gr). Considering the many variables that could affect ML performance (barrel residue, seating pressure, etc), I doubt if a .1 grain difference is noticeable.

 

[cayuga]

Quite a while back this topic was discussed. I even bought a digital scale because of it to weigh charges and projectiles.

Being willing to try new things, I measured out 10 charges of Triple Se7en 3f and took the average. I then made all ten charges equal to the average. The charge was (by volume) 70 grains of Triple Se7en 3f, 2 - fiber 1/16th wads, and a 460 grain Bull Shop Conical out of my White Ultra Mag.

I shot two seperate groups at 75 yards and measured them. I then did the same thing after swabbing the barrel of the White Ultra Mag and shot charges off the powder measure. I was surprised that the weighed charges shot a tighter group. Not much mind you, but they were just a bit smaller then the volume measured groups.

While the weighed charges at 75 yards did better, the little difference they showed with 70 grains of Triple Se7en 3f and a 460 grain Bull Shop conical at that distance was IMO nothing to concern myself with. Any of the 20 shots fired would have gotten the job done. Although the experiment did make me question the results of such an experiment at say 150 yards where the extra distance would open the group size and also be more prone to flyers.

For those that shoot longer distances, weighing might be a benifit. But again, every time you change to a new jug of powder I would start with a new average in weight for that powder jug. It would be intersting to see just how much different there really is between different pounds of the same kind of powder.

 

[flatland hunter]

My experience has been like UC's... whatever volume of 2f T7 I want to weigh is 20% less, ie. 100gn volume = 80gn weighed. My goto load for my Whites is 68gn weighed or 85gn by volume.

 

[redpep]

I weigh all my powder, T-7 and smokeless. takes the guess work out of the equation.

 

[ultratec00]

Ok, you guys convinced me. I just bought a little portable digital scale to take to the range with me (prices are dirt cheap). Checked my powder measure tonight. It threw a consistant charge +/- .1 grain. However, one out 7 throws would deviate a grain or so. Not much, but probably enough to cause a little vertical deviation.

 

[lane]

I always weigh my charges. I put them in old hotel mini shampoo bottles :shock: They are airtight and I?ve got 50 of them! The Hampton Inn bottles are my favorite 8) 150grains loose powder is just short of half full. I load them all up, and divide the varying charges with well-marked ziplock bags.

 

[PA RIDGE RUNNER]

I strictly use Goex (gooex) powder. I use a brass measure and fill from the can with an RMC shutoff mounted in the lid. For about a year now I have first measured by volume, 80 gr of FFg. Although most are close to a weighed 80 gr I get variations from 77 gr to 81.5 gr which I correct to 80 gr weighed.

Since I have been weighing my charges I get far fewer flyers i.e. better groups. Since I need all the help I can get I plan to weigh all my loads. Why I get such a variation in weight out of the volumetric measure is beyond me. I have tried a bunch of different ways to fill the measure and no way has proved to be as consistant as my electronic scales.

 

[hunterken]

777 volume

so, 100g by volume 2F 777 weighs 80 grains by weight

100 grains by volume BH 209 weighs 70 grains by weight from what I've read

correct?

 

[Okie Hog]

Tried weighed charges for awhile and saw very little difference in my groups. IMO: Weighed charges are not worth the effort.

 

[bumshot]

I shot 100 gr of Blackhorn with 200 gr Sw in fifty cal. Went 1926 fps. Extreme spread of 41. It shot .69 at 100 yards. Then 110 grains. Went 2067, with a ES of 15, Group was .57. Then 125 gr. Went 2200, ES of only 5fps. 1.02 inch group. This was useing a TC u-view measure. With that low ES, I don't think weighing would help. Also, it doesn't need to shoot any better. This was in a TC Endeavor with a six power Leupold. I haven't tried weighing and don't plan to. I load a lot of center fire, so I have a scale.

 

[squirrelhawker]

I have found that an unopened jug of BH209 weighs less than a pound of feathers!! (and has a lot less volumn) :lol: :lol:

 

[Bucker]

weight

jeeze, I just went out and bought a scale this past wekeend. I don't know, i am making a choice this year to use my Pro Hunter instead of my 30-06. I figure I got one shot in that strip mine field and I want it to count! If it takes a little time to load while watching a goofy tv show or my wife has established her control of the remote and is tuned into the Women who Hate Men channel that is okay. One less thing I can blame my shooting on. Man if i was measuring .57 instead of 1 inch, my friends would just stare at me and i would be estatic. After all the laughing last year w/ my flinter and Pro Hnter 2 guys have gone out and bought flinters??? Wait til' they get really screwed up on this sport!!

 

[bernieg]

I weigh mine for competition but not for hunting. What comes out of the flask is all the gun is getting. 8)

 

[UtahRob]

Tried weighed charges for awhile and saw very little difference in my groups. IMO: Weighed charges are not worth the effort.

same to me !!!!!!!!!!

 

[hawgslayer]

100 Grains in my powder measurer is only 85 grains of powder on my grain scale. ( APP GOLD) If I remember correctly, 2 .50 cal PYRODEX PELLETS were around 85/87 grains on the scale. :? :?
I weigh every one of my charges. I found that it works well in being consistant at the range :!: :!: :!:
GOOD HUNTING :!: :!: :!:

 

[Bucker]

weight

I forgot to mention I use those Lanes tubes and pre measure my loads. I also mark what they are on the outside. This is for BP and BH209 and T7 .