Pedersoli Hawken Hunter testing

[daveheffner110]

After a long delay, I finally had a chance to test my Pedersoli Hawken Hunter 50 cal. The day was cloudy and 45 degrees and at the local range. I first shot at 50 yards with a patched up target. The load was 70 gr.v of Swiss 2F, a 420gr. No Excuses conical over a 54 cal. felt wad. I repaired the target to show the two shots at 50 yards.

The two red dots are the first two shots. The white square was used to help with the background for the small brass bead on the front sight of the Pedersoli.

I hope Idaholewis and potato boy see this and comment about the sights. At my age I need a fiber optic front bead to see anything. I was also thinking about adding a 57 SML tang sight with a little more vertical adjustment as well as some windage.

The next two shots were taken at 75 yards. I had never shot this muzzleloader past the 50 yard spot, until this past Saturday. The impact locations were even with the square and just a little to the left. Again, thinking I would like some windage adjustment. One of those small black patches at the eleven o'clock position was the first hit, the second being down in the middle, nine o'clock spot in the white.

I was swabbing the barrel between each shot when the range officer announced a stoppage, so I thought okay and went down to move the target to 100 yards which was new territory but I would learn what the drop would be.



Again, the red dots show where the 100 yard shots impacted the target. The Pedersoli has a 1-24 twist.

The white square was about 3 1/2 inches tall and 3 inches wide. More testing is scheduled for this gun, but I wonder if I tweak with the factory sights (adding holes for the tang sight), will I affect the value of the gun overall. The next testing will be with BullShops 460 gr. conicals with the NASA lube.

What say you Idaholewis?

Dave Heffner
Roseburg, OR

 

[jcnull2305]

I think @Idaholewis can answer this more fully than I, but I think Lew, among others here have mentioned that No Excuses bullets may use different alloys from time to time, and one doesn't necessarily know what alloy they're getting. It has been pointed out by the appearance of the sprue smears that the alloys appear to be harder than pure lead.

I'm sure the collective will chime in with clarifications/corrections.

@edmehlig
@michiganmuzzy
@sdporter
@MrTom

If the alloy is too hard, your accuracy will suffer. Fitment is also a concern in that you don't want the bullet much over .001 over land diameter. Finally, over powder wads will help seal the gasses behind the bullet which will aid in accuracy

That's my kindergartner's answer. There's a legion of people here who will be able to expound upon it.

-Jim

 

[Bushfire]

That's very promising so far if you're thinking the factory sights can be improved. I'll be watching this thread, I'm thinking of investing in getting mine to a point where I can do most of my hunting with it.

 

[Idaholewis]

After a long delay, I finally had a chance to test my Pedersoli Hawken Hunter 50 cal. The day was cloudy and 45 degrees and at the local range. I first shot at 50 yards with a patched up target. The load was 70 gr.v of Swiss 2F, a 420gr. No Excuses conical over a 54 cal. felt wad. I repaired the target to show the two shots at 50 yards.
View attachment 11765
The two red dots are the first two shots. The white square was used to help with the background for the small brass bead on the front sight of the Pedersoli.

I hope Idaholewis and potato boy see this and comment about the sights. At my age I need a fiber optic front bead to see anything. I was also thinking about adding a 57 SML tang sight with a little more vertical adjustment as well as some windage.

The next two shots were taken at 75 yards. I had never shot this muzzleloader past the 50 yard spot, until this past Saturday. The impact locations were even with the square and just a little to the left. Again, thinking I would like some windage adjustment. One of those small black patches at the eleven o'clock position was the first hit, the second being down in the middle, nine o'clock spot in the white.

I was swabbing the barrel between each shot when the range officer announced a stoppage, so I thought okay and went down to move the target to 100 yards which was new territory but I would learn what the drop would be.

View attachment 11766

Again, the red dots show where the 100 yard shots impacted the target. The Pedersoli has a 1-24 twist.

The white square was about 3 1/2 inches tall and 3 inches wide. More testing is scheduled for this gun, but I wonder if I tweak with the factory sights (adding holes for the tang sight), will I affect the value of the gun overall. The next testing will be with BullShops 460 gr. conicals with the NASA lube.

What say you Idaholewis?

Dave Heffner
Roseburg, OR

First off, That is AWESOME Shooting for the Factory sights that came with that Gun, I know those sights pretty well, and they are TOUGH in my opinion, But i am not use to a Regular Bead sight, My eyesight don’t play well with regular Bead sights. What works best for my eyesight is a Small peep Hole in the .050 Range (Like the Large 1” William Aperture you see in my Video stuff, I have several of those, Along with my Hadley Eye Cup that has 9 different Hole sizes i can flip through, These are geared toward Target) I also use a 17 Series Globe front sight, With TEENY TINY BPCR inserts, in Good lighting there is NOTHING Better, And in Low, Poor lighting there is NOTHING Worse. These sights DISAPPEAR in low light

What it boils down to, is Hunting & Target shooting are 2 VERY different disciplines, What works great for Targets in Good lighting, Might be HORRIBLE in a Low light hunting Situation, That has been my Hands on Experience with these Sight Setups. It’s one of those things where you CAN’T Have your Cake and eat it to. You have to pick one or the other? For me personally, I shoot this sight system SO WELL, that i am willing to give up that PRECIOUS 1/2 hour at first light, and 1/2 hour at last light.

Personally, For Hunting, i would look for a small fiber optic Bead, Something that is WIDE OPEN without any kind of Hood around it. These Globe front sights that i use are geared DIRECTLY toward Target shooting in good lighting. In low light, Even in Dark timber, Thick Brushy country they Plain SUCK, You are trying to look Through a TINY DARK Tunnel, And MANY times you are BLIND

As for the Rear Peep, I didn’t modify my Pedersoli Hawken Hunter, that was @Potato boy that did that, He installed a Lyman 57SML, I thought it looked good in his picture. The Lyman 57 Tang Peep is a Good Sight, i have several of them. They have a Very good range of adjustment

 

[Idaholewis]

I think @Idaholewis can answer this more fully than I, but I think Lew, among others here have mentioned that No Excuses bullets may use different alloys from time to time, and one doesn't necessarily know what alloy they're getting. It has been pointed out by the appearance of the sprue smears that the alloys appear to be harder than pure lead.

I'm sure the collective will chime in with clarifications/corrections.

@edmehlig
@michiganmuzzy
@sdporter
@MrTom

If the alloy is too hard, your accuracy will suffer. Fitment is also a concern in that you don't want the bullet much over .001 over land diameter. Finally, over powder wads will help seal the gasses behind the bullet which will aid in accuracy

That's my kindergartner's answer. There's a legion of people here who will be able to expound upon it.

-Jim

That was me that did the Hardness Test on the No Excuses Bullets and Found Varied Hardness Bullets mixed throughout a Box. The owner of No Excuses Bullets is a member here, he joined the thread i had started and said that it was a 1 time thing, That He had gotten a Bad Batch of lead, it was marked Wrong or something like that? Anyway, I’m pretty sure that he corrected that

 

[jcnull2305]

Dave, I just reread your post and realized my response had nothing to do with what you were asking

Apparently, reading comprehension is a thing... Just maybe not my thing.

 

[Bushfire]

First off, That is AWESOME Shooting for the Factory sights that came with that Gun, I know those sights pretty well, and they are TOUGH in my opinion, But i am not use to a Regular Bead sight, My eyesight don’t play well with regular Bead sights. What works best for my eyesight is a Small peep Hole in the .050 Range (Like the Large 1” William Aperture you see in my Video stuff, I have several of those, Along with my Hadley Eye Cup that has 9 different Hole sizes i can flip through, These are geared toward Target) I also use a 17 Series Globe front sight, With TEENY TINY BPCR inserts, in Good lighting there is NOTHING Better, And in Low, Poor lighting there is NOTHING Worse. These sights DISAPPEAR in low light

What it boils down to, is Hunting & Target shooting are 2 VERY different disciplines, What works great for Targets in Good lighting, Might be HORRIBLE in a Low light hunting Situation, That has been my Hands on Experience with these Sight Setups. It’s one of those things where you CAN’T Have your Cake and eat it to. You have to pick one or the other? For me personally, I shoot this sight system SO WELL, that i am willing to give up that PRECIOUS 1/2 hour at first light, and 1/2 hour at last light.

Personally, For Hunting, i would look for a small fiber optic Bead, Something that is WIDE OPEN without any kind of Hood around it. These Globe front sights that i use are geared DIRECTLY toward Target shooting in good lighting. In low light, Even in Dark timber, Thick Brushy country they Plain SUCK, You are trying to look Through a TINY DARK Tunnel, And MANY times you are BLIND

As for the Rear Peep, I didn’t modify my Pedersoli Hawken Hunter, that was @Potato boy that did that, He installed a Lyman 57SML, I thought it looked good in his picture. The Lyman 57 Tang Peep is a Good Sight, i have several of them. They have a Very good range of adjustment

Do you always hunt with your target set-up or do you use a separate rifle with more appropriate/specific hunting sights sometimes?

 

[daveheffner110]

Here is where I am with this gun. I have set up a Renegade for hunting (57 SML on the tang and a fiber optic front bead) and it was my go to gun for this last muzzleloader blacktail hunt. That gun shot the 460 BullShop conical great and I like the setup.

I think I will redo the sights on the Pedersoli and set it up for hunting also (same tang sight and bead sight as my Renegade). The thing that I questioned was changing a great factory gun that someone else might not like. I will keep the factory sights but the new hole in the wrist area will then be exposed when returned to factory.

I may be affecting the resale value of this gun, in the eyes of a potential buyer.

I sure was surprised to see the No Excuses bullets shoot that flat, as I was expecting to see a drop at 100 yards. I will see how the BullShop bullets shoot, but after a sight change. I copied the photo of Potato boy's Pedersoli set up and that is the way this gun will be modified. The goal is to have a muzzleloader that can take down an antelope in Oregon with a 100 yard shot. I have 5 points and need 8.

You guys are great to get advice from. I know, I know, it is my gun and I should set it up the way I can use it the best.

The tang set up doesn't worry me, but I have not found a fiber optic that will work for that gun yet. Keep your eyes out for me. And thanks.

Dave Heffner
Roseburg, OR

 

[jcnull2305]

Dave, I really think most potential future buyers would view a quality tang sight as an upgrade.

 

[Idaholewis]

I agree with @jcnull2305 The Lyman 57 should ad Value, to anyone that understands this stuff anyway

 

[jcnull2305]

I agree with @jcnull2305 The Lyman 57 should ad Value, to anyone that understands this stuff anyway

...unless you glue it on. That'll junk it up.

 

[Idaholewis]

Do you always hunt with your target set-up or do you use a separate rifle with more appropriate/specific hunting sights sometimes?

Truth is, i RARELY hunt with a Muzzleloader, They Don’t give us any incentive up here where i live to Hunt with a Muzzleloader, We only have 1 Muzzleloader ONLY Hunt up here, it’s like 6 Days for Cow Elk ONLY, and has to be within 1 mile of Private Land, It is TRULY a Joke! But it is the 1 Chance i get to Hunt with my Muzzleloaders, When everyone else has to be doing the same

Down in Southern Idaho where @idahoron Lives they have some REALLY Cool Draw type Hunts, they have a reason to get excited about Muzzleloader Hunting, If Drawn they get to Hunt Deer in Sept, the same as Archery. But we don’t have ANYTHING like that up here in Far North Idaho. I get 1 Deer Tag per Calendar Year, And Our Deer hunt is in General Firearm season, i am out there with Everybody and there Brother with Scoped Centerfire Rifles, Therefore i prefer to use my Scoped Centerfires.

I would feel VERY different if i owned, or had Access to Private land, Where i was by myself, no competition from other Hunters, it would be FUN to hunt with my Muzzleloaders in a Situation like that. But i DON’T have that Luxury, I have to Hunt Public/State land, Which is LOADED with other hunters.

 

[Bushfire]

Truth is, i RARELY hunt with a Muzzleloader, They Don’t give us any incentive up here where i live to Hunt with a Muzzleloader, We only have 1 Muzzleloader ONLY Hunt up here, it’s like 6 Days for Cow Elk ONLY, and has to be within 1 mile of Private Land, It is TRULY a Joke! But it is the 1 Chance i get to Hunt with my Muzzleloaders, When everyone else has to be doing the same

Down in Southern Idaho where @idahoron Lives they have some REALLY Cool Draw type Hunts, they have a reason to get excited about Muzzleloader Hunting, If Drawn they get to Hunt Deer in Sept, the same as Archery. But we don’t have ANYTHING like that up here in Far North Idaho. I get 1 Deer Tag per Calendar Year, And Our Deer hunt is in General Firearm season, i am out there with Everybody and there Brother with Scoped Centerfire Rifles, Therefore i prefer to use my Scoped Centerfires.

I would feel VERY different if i owned, or had Access to Private land, Where i was by myself, no competition from other Hunters, it would be FUN to hunt with my Muzzleloaders in a Situation like that. But i DON’T have that Luxury, I have to Hunt Public/State land, Which is LOADED with other hunters.

That's fair enough mate, we don't have any incentive to use one here but we also don't have a disincentive. I can shoot as many deer as I want so I generally knock a couple over as needed with the rifle and then use bow and muzzleloader.

 

[Idaholewis]

That's fair enough mate, we don't have any incentive to use one here but we also don't have a disincentive. I can shoot as many deer as I want so I generally knock a couple over as needed with the rifle and then use bow and muzzleloader.

Up until the last 3 or 4 years i had it Good here, Even though i hunt State/Public Land. We didn’t have ANYWHERE NEAR as many people hunting back then, I had FULL intentions of Filming one of my hunts with a Muzzleloader, We had GOOD numbers of Deer then, All that Changed about 3-4 Years ago. Now we have a MILLION Hunters, and NOWHERE near the Number of Deer. With only 1 Deer Tag, The extreme Hunting pressure, and we love Deer meat, I don’t mess around, I grab a Scoped Centerfire Rifle & Dive in with the rest of the Hunters

 

[Bushfire]

Up until the last 3 or 4 years i had it Good here, Even though i hunt State/Public Land. We didn’t have ANYWHERE NEAR as many people hunting back then, I had FULL intentions of Filming one of my hunts with a Muzzleloader, We had GOOD numbers of Deer then, All that Changed about 3-4 Years ago. Now we have a MILLION Hunters, and NOWHERE near the Number of Deer. With only 1 Deer Tag, The extreme Hunting pressure, and we love Deer meat, I don’t mess around, I grab a Scoped Centerfire Rifle & Dive in with the rest of the Hunters

I was reading recently the Idaho NR cap hasn't changed in a long while, but the resident population of hunters has exploded over the last 15 years. Can't imagine that helps.

 

[Bad Karma]

Up until the last 3 or 4 years i had it Good here, Even though i hunt State/Public Land. We didn’t have ANYWHERE NEAR as many people hunting back then, I had FULL intentions of Filming one of my hunts with a Muzzleloader, We had GOOD numbers of Deer then, All that Changed about 3-4 Years ago. Now we have a MILLION Hunters, and NOWHERE near the Number of Deer. With only 1 Deer Tag, The extreme Hunting pressure, and we love Deer meat, I don’t mess around, I grab a Scoped Centerfire Rifle & Dive in with the rest of the Hunters

More folks moving to Idaho?

 

[jcnull2305]

More folks moving to Idaho?

Out-of-staters from Washington, Oregon and California

 

[michiganmuzzy]

The two red dots are the first two shots. The white square was used to help with the background for the small brass bead on the front sight of the Pedersoli.

I hope Idaholewis and potato boy see this and comment about the sights. At my age I need a fiber optic front bead to see anything. I was also thinking about adding a 57 SML tang sight with a little more vertical adjust

Front FO is pretty std i believe this one at .550 tall would work for you. I am fairly sure they offer a .500 tall also. The 57sml is a great sight. I was lucky enough to get a target version one of my MLs.

https://shop.williamsgunsight.com/ecommerce/p/ramp--firesight--muzzleloader-octagon--550-066658

 

[idahoron]

Like Lew said 12 hours south of him here in southern Idaho we have a totally different world.

We have a lot of open desert which we have deer, elk, and antelope. We also have some thick timber hunts for deer and elk.
We have short range hunts. Those hunts are designed to remove animals in river bottoms and farm fields. We can use shotguns, pistols that the round was made for a pistol. Like you can use a 44 mag but not a 45-70. We can use bows and muzzleloaders. That hunt doesn't have the best chance at a monster but it does offer hunting close to home.

Some of those hunts can be boat access only. In that case I have my Knight MK85's. To be honest I put those guns together just for that hunt. If I drop one in the river I won't lose one of my sidelocks.

We have a lot of muzzleloader opportunity but the quality of that opportunity is rapidly going down hill. My bull hunt I had this year was not what it used to be. I got one but only see a couple elk total. 5 years ago I would have held out for a 350+ bull. Now you shoot the first one you see.

We have a few muzzleloader deer hunts that a guy can get a true trophy animal in. Those used to be later in the year on winter range.

Then there are areas that are just opportunity type hunts, with the off chance at a pretty good buck. These hunts tend to be early October in more timber areas.

The antelope hunts we have for muzzleloader only are after archery hunts. That kind of pisses me off. It takes years to draw the antelope tags. My rifles set up for long range are right at home on these hunts.

Going forward in Idaho with our huts in the southern end we have a real problem with ranchers demanding lower game numbers. The game is competing against the cattle for the food and the ranchers have demanded hunts that reduce or eliminate game from some areas. High numbers of hunters is making drawing for tags almost impossible on some hunts. The number of people flooding into Idaho is staggering.
The game department has been putting open hunts in winter ranges to eliminate animals, and it is working. In hunts that had 45 tags with 100% success now we have 450 tags with 1% success.
With game numbers plummeting it is getting harder for me to want to go. I don't trophy hunt like I used to. I tend to go on hunts that my son and I can go together on his schedule. Those hunts tend to be ones that we take what ever we see.
The muzzleloader hunts are still seeing fewer hunters. That is the reason I stick with them.
I am thinking about putting in for moose for a few years with my son. We have a short range moose hunt that is boat only. The success is pretty good but the trophy quality is poor. We would use our pontoons to float the river looking for moose. It could be fun.

 

[Idaholewis]

Like Lew said 12 hours south of him here in southern Idaho we have a totally different world.

We have a lot of open desert which we have deer, elk, and antelope. We also have some thick timber hunts for deer and elk.
We have short range hunts. Those hunts are designed to remove animals in river bottoms and farm fields. We can use shotguns, pistols that the round was made for a pistol. Like you can use a 44 mag but not a 45-70. We can use bows and muzzleloaders. That hunt doesn't have the best chance at a monster but it does offer hunting close to home.

Some of those hunts can be boat access only. In that case I have my Knight MK85's. To be honest I put those guns together just for that hunt. If I drop one in the river I won't lose one of my sidelocks.

We have a lot of muzzleloader opportunity but the quality of that opportunity is rapidly going down hill. My bull hunt I had this year was not what it used to be. I got one but only see a couple elk total. 5 years ago I would have held out for a 350+ bull. Now you shoot the first one you see.

We have a few muzzleloader deer hunts that a guy can get a true trophy animal in. Those used to be later in the year on winter range.

Then there are areas that are just opportunity type hunts, with the off chance at a pretty good buck. These hunts tend to be early October in more timber areas.

The antelope hunts we have for muzzleloader only are after archery hunts. That kind of pisses me off. It takes years to draw the antelope tags. My rifles set up for long range are right at home on these hunts.

Going forward in Idaho with our huts in the southern end we have a real problem with ranchers demanding lower game numbers. The game is competing against the cattle for the food and the ranchers have demanded hunts that reduce or eliminate game from some areas. High numbers of hunters is making drawing for tags almost impossible on some hunts. The number of people flooding into Idaho is staggering.
The game department has been putting open hunts in winter ranges to eliminate animals, and it is working. In hunts that had 45 tags with 100% success now we have 450 tags with 1% success.
With game numbers plummeting it is getting harder for me to want to go. I don't trophy hunt like I used to. I tend to go on hunts that my son and I can go together on his schedule. Those hunts tend to be ones that we take what ever we see.
The muzzleloader hunts are still seeing fewer hunters. That is the reason I stick with them.
I am thinking about putting in for moose for a few years with my son. We have a short range moose hunt that is boat only. The success is pretty good but the trophy quality is poor. We would use our pontoons to float the river looking for moose. It could be fun.

You have killed a few DANDY Mule Deer over the years Ron, The one with the Tine broke off in his Face Really stands out to me, Both of these Bucks you have pictured here are GIANTS I have killed 1 of those Really good ones, i got him with my Bow. The pictures of your country down there reminds me a Lot of Eastern Wa where i use to Hunt Mule Deer.