Tested the Hornady Great Plains bullets today.........

[ETipp]

Took my .50 caliber New Englander to the range today. I had high hopes for the HGP bullet but after some testing, I don't think this will be my round of choice. After some sight adjustments I did manage to get the holes touching from 50 yards. At 100 yards the drop was way more than I want to deal with. To be fair, with my aging vision and iron sights, the end bead covered up the entire target black, so it is difficult to know the true accuracy on a 100 yard target.

Accuracy was not as much of an issue as loading them. In my particular rifle, they were way too tight getting them started. So much so that I actually had to make a fist and pound the heal of my hand very hard on the bullet starter just to get the bullet down the first few inches. After that they went the rest of the way down the barrel easily. But getting them started in my rifle is a no go for me. I know not how much pressure it might require in other rifles, but for mine, they are not a bullet I want to force so hard to get started.

To sum this up, they are definitely accurate out to 50 yards from my rifle.

At 100 yards the drop is way more than I like. However, I never increased the charge.

As hard as it takes to get HGP bullets started in the barrel of this particular rifle, that sealed their fate with this ole boy.

Moving along, I had some Hornady XTP 240 grains left over from my last inline range session, so I shot a few of them from 100 yards. They start down the barrel much easier but are fairly snug all the way until they are seated. The only charge I used was 80 grains of 3F black powder. Accuracy appeared to be pretty good but again, the target I had was too small for the sights. Any time the sights cover up the target, its more/less a stab in the dark. There is little aiming precision to be had.

They shot pretty darn flat from 50 to 100 yards, which makes me happy. Definitely something to work on at the next range trip, except the next time I will have a larger target for better aiming. I do plan on increasing the powder charge. From my only other experience with the XTP's out of an inline I found accuracy increased with an increase in powder charge.

I still have a few more PowerBelts left over and I'll most likely give them a try out to 100 yards but I have my doubts with those. They do load nice in this rifle.

So, I am on the hunt once again for a bullet that suits me, as well as my New Englander.

 

[Steelheader323]

So a few things I will say here..the xtp may be even more accurate with a stronger load. The new Englander is a 1/48” correct?? They have been proven time and time again to be lethal on game..

The hgp bullet are also lethal on game..a few years back I used them at the range to try them in my renegade and they loaded super hard..what I did was take a flat file and lay it on the bench and push 2 even strokes forward and back with the bullet then rotate 90 degrees and to the same..so
Basically the bullet had 4 slight “flats” this made loading much easier and I use an over powder wad wit them. Accuracy didn’t change after the modification either they still shot decent. Worth a try

 

[ETipp]

So a few things I will say here..the xtp may be even more accurate with a stronger load. The new Englander is a 1/48” correct?? They have been proven time and time again to be lethal on game..

The hgp bullet are also lethal on game..a few years back I used them at the range to try them in my renegade and they loaded super hard..what I did was take a flat file and lay it on the bench and push 2 even strokes forward and back with the bullet then rotate 90 degrees and to the same..so
Basically the bullet had 4 slight “flats” this made loading much easier and I use an over powder wad wit them. Accuracy didn’t change after the modification either they still shot decent. Worth a try

Yes, 1:48 twist.

Indeed, many good reports on the XTP. I have no doubts about their killing abilities on deer size game. However, I'm not real big on plastic in a ML. I much prefer heavier bore diameter bullets. Then again, I also like a flatter trajectory. I'm also not completely sold on bore diameter conical style bullets that are hollow point. I do like how easy PowerBelts load but I've seen and heard a lot of not so great reports on accuracy, as well as durability. Many reports of them coming apart in an animal with no exit holes.

So the search continues.

 

[Steelheader323]

You probably don’t won’t want to hear my opinion on the powerbelts, so I’ll save you the paragraph long rant…but there are other conicals you could try as well. Keep at it and you will find something..they are a bit pricey but Thor 250 grain should shoot well in the 1/48” twist, full bore with modern technology ..definitely worth a try. Good luck!

 

[ETipp]

You probably don’t won’t want to hear my opinion on the powerbelts, so I’ll save you the paragraph long rant…but there are other conicals you could try as well. Keep at it and you will find something..they are a bit pricey but Thor 250 grain should shoot well in the 1/48” twist, full bore with modern technology ..definitely worth a try. Good luck!

Yes, I have seen some videos on the Thor bullets. Both accuracy and penetration testing.

 

[deermanok]

A while back I got some bullets from a member here, 45 caliber TC Maxi Balls, 245 grain, paired with the Harvester high pressure (black) 50 caliber sabot.
They shot pretty good out of my CVA Mountain Stalker carbine.
They loaded very easily in my gun.

 

[WP79Vet]

Took my .50 caliber New Englander to the range today. I had high hopes for the HGP bullet but after some testing, I don't think this will be my round of choice. After some sight adjustments I did manage to get the holes touching from 50 yards. At 100 yards the drop was way more than I want to deal with. To be fair, with my aging vision and iron sights, the end bead covered up the entire target black, so it is difficult to know the true accuracy on a 100 yard target.

Accuracy was not as much of an issue as loading them. In my particular rifle, they were way too tight getting them started. So much so that I actually had to make a fist and pound the heal of my hand very hard on the bullet starter just to get the bullet down the first few inches. After that they went the rest of the way down the barrel easily. But getting them started in my rifle is a no go for me. I know not how much pressure it might require in other rifles, but for mine, they are not a bullet I want to force so hard to get started.

To sum this up, they are definitely accurate out to 50 yards from my rifle.

At 100 yards the drop is way more than I like. However, I never increased the charge.

As hard as it takes to get HGP bullets started in the barrel of this particular rifle, that sealed their fate with this ole boy.

Moving along, I had some Hornady XTP 240 grains left over from my last inline range session, so I shot a few of them from 100 yards. They start down the barrel much easier but are fairly snug all the way until they are seated. The only charge I used was 80 grains of 3F black powder. Accuracy appeared to be pretty good but again, the target I had was too small for the sights. Any time the sights cover up the target, its more/less a stab in the dark. There is little aiming precision to be had.

They shot pretty darn flat from 50 to 100 yards, which makes me happy. Definitely something to work on at the next range trip, except the next time I will have a larger target for better aiming. I do plan on increasing the powder charge. From my only other experience with the XTP's out of an inline I found accuracy increased with an increase in powder charge.

I still have a few more PowerBelts left over and I'll most likely give them a try out to 100 yards but I have my doubts with those. They do load nice in this rifle.

So, I am on the hunt once again for a bullet that suits me, as well as my New Englander.

Sounds like you got good accuracy with the HGPs, but because they are a slow, heavy bullet, they don't have as flat a trajectory as you want. Since you're going to be hunting deer, you probably don't need anything that heavy anyway. Were you shooting the HGPs with or without a wad?

When I was hunting deer in wide-open Eastern WA canyon country with an inline, I had good luck with the TC Cheapshot sabots, which have a 240 grain pure lead hollow point bullet. They loaded reasonably well, were fairly accurate, and I got a complete pass-through and a BIG wound channel on a big muley buck that I shot at a range of 130 yards with one. They are intended as practice bullets, but numerous others have reported good performance on game, and you can't beat the price or availability.

I feel that for any accurate shooting beyond 50 yards, you have to think through iron sights carefully. Any front sight that I can see covers too much of the target at 100 yards.... so my preferred front sight is a flat topped post that's about 1/16th of an inch thick. I sight it in so that where I hit on the target is just above the top of the post: That way I can see the exact desired point of impact, and my eye naturally tries to center that point on the top of the post. When shooting for groups to test accuracy, I put the bottom of the bullseye on top of the post, a sight picture and point of aim which my old eye can see and align with good precision.

The bases of the HGPs and H PA conicals start into my Renegade's muzzle with finger pressure, but it takes sharp raps on my short starter to push their noses past the muzzle, after which they slide down easily. I don't like the rapping part... but with any full-bore conical, I think it's necessary to either get them started with hard raps on the short starter, or come up with a specific exact diameter, through custom casting and/or custom sizing, if you want easy loading and optimal accuracy. I'm planning to buy an adjustable sizer in the near future: I have to hunt with full-bore, all-lead bullets here in MT's Heritage Muzzleloader season, and since I'll be hunting both elk and deer, I'd like bullets that carry more energy downrange than round balls. Before I buy the sizer, I'm planning to work with The Bullshop to see if they can come up with an accurate full-bore bullet that loads easily in my Renegade, and weighs less than 400 grains for a flatter trajectory than you can get with other commercially available bullets such as the No Excuses line.

 

[ETipp]

WP 79, Hopefully you will be able to come up with a good bullet to suit you for out there. With a resizing die and the right bullet I'm sure one of those you mentioned will work without having to go all the way up to the 500 grain weight.

You are correct in your thoughts on iron sights. Due to my old eyes, it makes it a challenge without doubt. I went to a fine front bead (fiber optic) and a rear peep. That's the only way I can get a clear view nowadays. I could, and might, remove the front bead and put the larger original TC bead back on and give it a try, but that would cover up even more of the aiming zone on the target at 100 yards. Either way, it would still require over holding the target. I find it interesting that I can see plenty good enough to hold on a smaller target when looking down through the woods. Yet, I could not see that aiming dot on that target. It was a fairly good size aiming dot, or square. I am certain I can see well enough to put that front bead on a deer vitals at only 100 years, however. Kind of strange.

Installing a scope on a traditional is something that I cannot bring myself to do.

As I have said, I did not vary the powder charge, nor did I try a larger target. And indeed, the bullet will drop more at 100 yards due to its additional weight. Shooting a 240 grain XTP in comparison proved that. From 50 to 100 they were pretty darn flat. They also provided tighter groups than the HGP bullet.

In terms of the required pounding to start the HGP bullet; in this rifle it requires more pressure than I really want to deal with. I have the strength to get them started, but they do start hard and is something I would rather avoid if possible.

Considering all the above, and after much research, I am not happy with any of the bullets I have seen, for various reasons. Much of it has to do with bullets not exiting a critter, as well as penetration tests. I definitely want a pass through shot. I also think it can be conducive to have a full bore size bullet that will hold together in a critter. So, after some head scratching I have come up with a possible solution. I still have the old Maxi Ball mold, still have my furnace, and I have a little bit of pure lead. My hopes are to cast a few rounds of Maxi Balls out of pure lead today. IMO, with ML rifles, it would be better to have a full bore size coming and going than to have only one larger hole with no exit due to the bullet over expansion. That theory has not let me down yet.

I reckon time will tell. Hopefully I can get to the range tomorrow.

 

[drpatton]

So a few things I will say here..the xtp may be even more accurate with a stronger load. The new Englander is a 1/48” correct?? They have been proven time and time again to be lethal on game..

The hgp bullet are also lethal on game..a few years back I used them at the range to try them in my renegade and they loaded super hard..what I did was take a flat file and lay it on the bench and push 2 even strokes forward and back with the bullet then rotate 90 degrees and to the same..so
Basically the bullet had 4 slight “flats” this made loading much easier and I use an over powder wad wit them. Accuracy didn’t change after the modification either they still shot decent. Worth a try

The T/C New Englander does have a 1:48 twist rate. I assume you're using a .50 cal. The problem is the saboted bullet is not .50 it's .45 or something. It needs that extra twist, whereas the .50 doesn't. A .50 bullet 3/4" long will stabilize in a 1:48, but a 3/4" .45 needs a 1:40 or quicker.

That said, how did your sabots do?

Edit: If you are using a .54 and the bullets in the sabot are .50, then the 1:48 is fine. That's assuming you are using a bullet that is 3/4" long.

 

[Steelheader323]

I have used 250 grain .451 bullets in harvester sabots with really good accuracy from my 1-48” rifles

 

[ETipp]

The T/C New Englander does have a 1:48 twist rate. I assume you're using a .50 cal. The problem is the saboted bullet is not .50 it's .45 or something. It needs that extra twist, whereas the .50 doesn't. A .50 bullet 3/4" long will stabilize in a 1:48, but a 3/4" .45 needs a 1:40 or quicker.

That said, how did your sabots do?

Edit: If you are using a .54 and the bullets in the sabot are .50, then the 1:48 is fine. That's assuming you are using a bullet that is 3/4" long.

To my amazement the Hornady 240 grain XTP's shot more accurately than the HGP bullet out of my .50 caliber 1:48 twist New Englander. They are definitely much flatter shooting from 50 yards to 100 yards as well. I just have an issue with shooting plastic out of an old sidelock. Kind of the same issue I have with installing a scope.

I have a Knight Inline that likes sabots and wears a scope, but my interests lies with the old side lock. Much like when I lived out west in the big mountains, I used to own several big .300 magnum rifles but they lived in my gun cabinet. I always choose my shorter and lighter 30.06 and it served me well, even on most longer shots.

Just one of those mental hang ups I reckon.

 

[deermanok]

Have you tried the Hornady PA conicals?
They're a 240 grain conical bullet. I shoot them in several of my sidehammer guns with good accuracy.
They also start a bit hard but not as bad as the GP bullets.
I push them in the barrel as much as I can with thumb pressure, then one good smack with the short starter and that's it.

 

[deermanok]

Another conical bullet to consider might be the old Thompson Center Maxi Hunters. I've shot those for years in sidehammer and inline guns.
The 275 grain bullets are what I have.
Be more than happy to send you a box to try. Just PM me your contact info.

 

[ETipp]

Have you tried the Hornady PA conicals?
They're a 240 grain conical bullet. I shoot them in several of my sidehammer guns with good accuracy.
They also start a bit hard but not as bad as the GP bullets.
I push them in the barrel as much as I can with thumb pressure, then one good smack with the short starter and that's it.

Ya know, I have never tried a 240 grain PA conical but I do have it written down in my notes. I have done a little research on them. They are on my short list.

Now that you bring it up, I think I'll go back and watch the video on them again.

 

[ETipp]

Another conical bullet to consider might be the old Thompson Center Maxi Hunters. I've shot those for years in sidehammer and inline guns.
The 275 grain bullets are what I have.
Be more than happy to send you a box to try. Just PM me your contact info.

I appreciate the information. I have not tried the Maxi Hunters. They did fairly well in some of the testing videos I watched. I have not seen any around this neck of the woods.

 

[WP79Vet]

WP 79, Hopefully you will be able to come up with a good bullet to suit you for out there. With a resizing die and the right bullet I'm sure one of those you mentioned will work without having to go all the way up to the 500 grain weight.

You are correct in your thoughts on iron sights. Due to my old eyes, it makes it a challenge without doubt. I went to a fine front bead (fiber optic) and a rear peep. That's the only way I can get a clear view nowadays. I could, and might, remove the front bead and put the larger original TC bead back on and give it a try, but that would cover up even more of the aiming zone on the target at 100 yards. Either way, it would still require over holding the target. I find it interesting that I can see plenty good enough to hold on a smaller target when looking down through the woods. Yet, I could not see that aiming dot on that target. It was a fairly good size aiming dot, or square. I am certain I can see well enough to put that front bead on a deer vitals at only 100 years, however. Kind of strange.

Installing a scope on a traditional is something that I cannot bring myself to do.

As I have said, I did not vary the powder charge, nor did I try a larger target. And indeed, the bullet will drop more at 100 yards due to its additional weight. Shooting a 240 grain XTP in comparison proved that. From 50 to 100 they were pretty darn flat. They also provided tighter groups than the HGP bullet.

In terms of the required pounding to start the HGP bullet; in this rifle it requires more pressure than I really want to deal with. I have the strength to get them started, but they do start hard and is something I would rather avoid if possible.

Considering all the above, and after much research, I am not happy with any of the bullets I have seen, for various reasons. Much of it has to do with bullets not exiting a critter, as well as penetration tests. I definitely want a pass through shot. I also think it can be conducive to have a full bore size bullet that will hold together in a critter. So, after some head scratching I have come up with a possible solution. I still have the old Maxi Ball mold, still have my furnace, and I have a little bit of pure lead. My hopes are to cast a few rounds of Maxi Balls out of pure lead today. IMO, with ML rifles, it would be better to have a full bore size coming and going than to have only one larger hole with no exit due to the bullet over expansion. That theory has not let me down yet.

I reckon time will tell. Hopefully I can get to the range tomorrow.

Thanks for posting your bullet results and analysis, and thoughts on directions for improvement. My next steps will be buying the adjustable sizer die and using it on HGPs, Hornady PA conicals (HPAs), and some 350 grain bullets custom cast for me with a Lyman 512137 mold by The Bullshop. Ultimately, I may get into casting with a custom mold from Accurate. They have a few 50 caliber molds for bullets in the 275 to 350 grain range that look interesting.

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

The only Powerbelt bullets I would purchase and depend on with your 1-48 twist, are Aerotip Platinums.
The (latest & greatest) Powerbelt ELR Platinum offering is intended for the faster twist inlines.

Both are expensive purchases. Costs a pretty penny spending a few hours at the range shooting these-2.
So if interested, sight-them-in and use for their intended hunting purposes-only.

I choose roundballs for my sidelocks and bulk XTP 240-300gr for my inlines. Harvester sabots are my preferred choice of sabot.

 

[ETipp]

Thanks for posting your bullet results and analysis, and thoughts on directions for improvement. My next steps will be buying the adjustable sizer die and using it on HGPs, Hornady PA conicals (HPAs), and some 350 grain bullets custom cast for me with a Lyman 512137 mold by The Bullshop. Ultimately, I may get into casting with a custom mold from Accurate. They have a few 50 caliber molds for bullets in the 275 to 350 grain range that look interesting.

Please let us know your findings after resizing the HGP and the PA conicals. I have a few PA conicals on the way to me now. Also have some Maxi Hunters on the way to test.

 

[ETipp]

The only Powerbelt bullets I would purchase and depend on with your 1-48 twist, are Aerotip Platinums.
The (latest & greatest) Powerbelt ELR Platinum offering is intended for the faster twist inlines.

Both are expensive purchases. Costs a pretty penny spending a few hours at the range shooting these-2.
So if interested, sight-them-in and use for their intended hunting purposes-only.

I choose roundballs for my sidelocks and bulk XTP 240-300gr for my inlines. Harvester sabots are my preferred choice of sabot.

I have a few PowerBelts 195 grain Hollow points left over from someone else's rifle. I shot a few and they did fair, but I did not up the charge behind them. They are spendy and are not my first choice for sure.

The Hornady 240 XTP actually grouped quite well at 100 yards. But again I did not change the charge.

As I have said, I much prefer a heavier, solid conical. Hope to get to the range today to do more testing from 100 yards. This time with a more suitable size target and with some pure lead Maxi Balls I cast a couple days ago.

 

[drpatton]

To my amazement the Hornady 240 grain XTP's shot more accurately than the HGP bullet out of my .50 caliber 1:48 twist New Englander.

I didn't think the Hornady, Great Plains bullets were made or designed for accuracy. My guess is 50 yrd shots on deer.