Let's Get Back To Muzzleloading - Traditional & In-Line / What's your feelings about scopes on traditional muzzle-loaders?

[Buck Conner1]

It appears there's no shortage of either huh

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They just pop-up everywhere from movies to our elected officials, there seems to be a growing amount anymore.

Stay save ​

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[bobbythehunter]

I love my cva accura Mr. Love the feel and love the way it shoots. I like my two renegades as well. Room in my safe for both. I'm sewn wrong

 

[Buck Conner1]

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I love my cva accura Mr. Love the feel and love the way it shoots. I like my two renegades as well. Room in my safe for both. I'm sewn wrong

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Apparently ...... :cheers:
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[White Fox]

Having first earned the Distinguished Rifleman badge with an M1 (Don McCoy built), then switched to an M1A, then to an M16 clone, I have an appreciation for the US military rifles. My "brother-in-law" loaner rifle is a remodeled 1903 Springfield- two groove GI barrel was turned to a smooth contour, Fajen sporter stock, machine work done to add a 4X Weaver scope, Darned if it isn't a pretty good rifle!

I still teach Hunter Education, and usually the ML section falls to me. I own a "modern muzzleloader" as a demo piece- break action, removable breech plug, black plastic and stainless steel. I don't think much of the "Modern MLs"- short sight radius, bullets only, have to use a tool to pry out the fired shotgun primer to reload, etc. Plus a lot of heifer dust about these being three hundred yard guns! Hoooey! Those big slow bullets have a lot of drop once you get beyond 100 yards, and how many hunters have a drop table taped to the side of the gun, or can estimate range within 20 Yards? I can't, I just know "close enough" from "too far".

 

[Squint]

A great example of some very narrow minded thinking. Not cool

I'm on three different forums, and I really have no argument with any of them, I'm here for what I can learn and to share what I have learned. I personally don't care what you hunt with as long as you observe fair Chase and don't bring disgrace down on hunters. I guess modern muzzleloaders is probably the one I enjoy the most, because they don't nitpick there. Personally I haven't decided whether to use a muzzleloader or my 270 to hunt with this year, just depends what the weather brings. My new percussion has a black plastic/fiberglass stock. I bought it so that I wouldn't have to fight wood warp, but I also thought it might irritate some of the bluebloods that I shoot with. I'm surprised nobody commented out loud. As much as I like to pretend I'm back in 1840, the firearms I use, the equipment I have, the knowledge that's available, there's just no way that I can do much more than just pretend.
Squint

 

[Ninering62]

I'm on three different forums, and I really have no argument with any of them, I'm here for what I can learn and to share what I have learned. I personally don't care what you hunt with as long as you observe fair Chase and don't bring disgrace down on hunters. I guess modern muzzleloaders is probably the one I enjoy the most, because they don't nitpick there. Personally I haven't decided whether to use a muzzleloader or my 270 to hunt with this year, just depends what the weather brings. My new percussion has a black plastic/fiberglass stock. I bought it so that I wouldn't have to fight wood warp, but I also thought it might irritate some of the bluebloods that I shoot with. I'm surprised nobody commented out loud. As much as I like to pretend I'm back in 1840, the firearms I use, the equipment I have, the knowledge that's available, there's just no way that I can do much more than just pretend.
Squint

You keep right on bein you & doin what you love, how ya like doin it for as long as your mind & body allow ya to do it. Thats what livning & real freedom is all about. Modern muzzleloader is my " home forum " as well.

 

[Marty1]

I have a question for the traditional muzzleloader enthusiasts. What is your initial "reaction" when someone puts a scope on a sidelock?

 

[Buck Conner1]

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Here's a request to the boss from Pete and myself:

Jonathan it's time you to ban political threads/posts on this forum. They're ruining this forum. Myself and Pete are getting mail and PM's from members that say they won't post here anymore because of these threads and the back and forth arguing. Most of the good forums won't allow political issues or threads/posts.

If this continues pretty soon they'll be the only ones talking to each other.

Muzzle-Loading and Muzzle-Loader Hunting should be the topics. Everything else needs to be deleted. We started out trying to help others and now it's a crap shoot.

I'm as bad doing this as anyone, I'll stop posting anything other than what this site was intended for originally. If you would want to use me please feel free to do so, I don't mind being the "escape goat".

What do you members think, are we "right or wrong".

Buck
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[Buck Conner1]

I have a question for the traditional muzzleloader enthusiasts. What is your initial "reaction" when someone puts a scope on a sidelock?

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I don't like the looks of a scope on a traditional muzzleloader - side-lock or under-hammer. But have seen original Civil War rifles with the long scope (maybe a 2 power at best) used more for centering on the target.

There are original side-lock and under-hammers with the long scopes, the length make them impossible to use for hunting (you would be spending more effort keeping the scope from getting hung-up in brush than looking for game). I've been told by old timers (crap now I'm one) they were used mainly as bench guns or ones used for sniper work in the day.

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[Buck Conner1]

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Marty this is an interesting subject and what others think.

By the way the second gun shown was used by a southern sniper to kill a high ranking Union Officer at the end of the Civil War (documented in several books).

Union Officer killed at a quarter mile, with one shot from this rifle held by a southern sniper.
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[muzzleloader48]

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"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one" Franklin D. Roosevelt (Clint Eastwood - Dirty Harry) :dancing chicken:

View attachment 2190
Here's a US 1841 that I sold last year.
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Good one Buck....

We were issued M14s but did some brief training with the M16. Forgot, but I did have a Spanish Mauser in .308 that I liked and later traded. The older military (at least pre-WWII) rifles do interest me and I almost bought a fine condition Mosin back in Ga. The really old ones, such as you posted, are of interest to me.
My collection before the last move. Quite pared down now, though. The one at the very top is my US 1841 .54 and my only remaining military rifle.

A "more better" pic of the 1841.

SKS paratrooper and standard rifle. Had them for years but sold them for our move. I actually installed a 30 round mag on the paratrooper.

Nice collection there Hanshi. I put an archangel stock and sporterized an SKS once with removal mag. Those rifle are extremely accurate until you heat the barrel up. Like the M14, you can throw it in the mud and still come up firing.

 

[muzzleloader48]

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"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one" Franklin D. Roosevelt (Clint Eastwood - Dirty Harry) :dancing chicken:

View attachment 2190
Here's a US 1841 that I sold last year.
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"and they all stink" sorry...just had to finish that quote.

 

[muzzleloader48]

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I don't like the looks of a scope on a traditional muzzleloader - side-lock or under-hammer. But have seen original Civil War rifles with the long scope (maybe a 2 power at best) used more for centering on the target.

There are original side-lock and under-hammers with the long scopes, the length make them impossible to use for hunting (you would be spending more effort keeping the scope from getting hung-up in brush than looking for game). I've been told by old timers (crap now I'm one) they were used mainly as bench guns or ones used for sniper work in the day.

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I'd say if you want to or have to use a scope for hunting, you would probably be better off going to an inline. IMO a scope detracts from the looks of a traditional ML. The antique long scopes do look good on them though.

 

[Hanshi]

I do not like scopes on traditional sidelock muzzleloaders. But a shooter has to do what a shooter has to do.

If one cannot see, one cannot shoot! I'll hold out as long as possible but still doubt I'll ever scope my flintlock. More likely I'd go to my Sav M99, which is scoped. And it doesn't take 20/20 eyesight to shoot shot.

 

[user 23626]

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Marty this is an interesting subject and what others think.

By the way the second gun shown was used by a southern sniper to kill a high ranking Union Officer at the end of the Civil War (documented in several books).

View attachment 2202
Union Officer killed at a quarter mile, with one shot from this rifle held by a southern sniper.
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under hammers RULE! ( just kidding)

 

[muzzleloader48]

under hammers RULE! ( just kidding)

There is one particular guy on gunbroker that we sold an under hammer to. He just loves them...believe he said he had five of various builds. Myself, I love the flintlocks and side-locks. Like Hanshi, when I just can't use the steel sights, I'll switch to my Winchester 70(post '64)30-06.

 

[Standing Bear]

At 72 years and after 2 cataract surgeries I was working on a load for a new to me ,.36 flinter. Just couldn’t get a group I thought it and I were capable of shooting at 50 yards. Using epoxy on a scope base I Mounted a long eye relief scope (to clear the frizzed/cock/pan debris) but no improvement then realized that the same group with a .50 or .54 would’ve been impressive. Was able to remove the scope and tap the base to remove it from the barrel.

If I feel a need for a scope on a traditional ML I’ll repeat the above. A few years ago I was helping a Sheep rancher reduce the deer population that was decimating his wheat crop. The set up required shooting to 300+ yards so I dusted off the ‘98 fitted with a Douglas .30-06 barrel and a Leupold. 4 shots filled 4 of my 5 tags then back to the woods and a .54 flinter with fixed open sights.

 

[muzzleloader48]

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Here's a request to the boss from Pete and myself:

Jonathan it's time you to ban political threads/posts on this forum. They're ruining this forum. Myself and Pete are getting mail and PM's from members that say they won't post here anymore because of these threads and the back and forth arguing. Most of the good forums won't allow political issues or threads/posts.

If this continues pretty soon they'll be the only ones talking to each other.

Muzzle-Loading and Muzzle-Loader Hunting should be the topics. Everything else needs to be deleted. We started out trying to help others and now it's a crap shoot.

I'm as bad doing this as anyone, I'll stop posting anything other than what this site was intended for originally. If you would want to use me please feel free to do so, I don't mind being the "escape goat".

What do you members think, are we "right or wrong".

Buck
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Buck I know how you feel about the Democrat Party, However if we start banning speech like Twitter and Facebook....we become like them. Seems to me every time a DEMOCRAT starts losing support, they want something banned. This particular thread is questions about scopes on traditional muzzle-loaders and that's what any references should be made to. So far, most of the posts on this thread seem to be about scopes & traditional ML's. If possible change the TITLE ON THIS THREAD to reflect the posts on scopes.

If anyone wants to post political reference concerning today's events, you have another thread called "more-false-information-from-nancy-p-and-folks-in-dc". That TITLE can be changed to reference Political views today.

 

[Buck Conner1]

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Stan the best sites have gone away from the political crap and stay with what their site was original started as. This forum has everything other than muzzle loading, that's why some members have moved on, they come back once in a while to see if this site (forum) has gone back to muzzle loading subjects, period items and modern all black powder related.

Moving forward the best way to handle the problem is have a Section called [SUBJECT: NON RELATED TO MUZZLE LOADING OR BLACK POWDER]. The "moderators" on this site can move subjects that are not in the correct location to where they fit best, that would help Jonathan?

Just changed the title as suggested, now if Jonathan will add one more Section as requested we can see how that works for those that have left because of the problems stated. :dancing chicken:

* Don't know why I seem to be the contact or Pete on these issues, we are just members like everyone else? They should talk to Jonathan, he's the boss, we're just low life's ..... :cheers:
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[muzzleloader48]

At 72 years and after 2 cataract surgeries I was working on a load for a new to me ,.36 flinter. Just couldn’t get a group I thought it and I were capable of shooting at 50 yards. Using epoxy on a scope base I Mounted a long eye relief scope (to clear the frizzed/cock/pan debris) but no improvement then realized that the same group with a .50 or .54 would’ve been impressive. Was able to remove the scope and tap the base to remove it from the barrel.

If I feel a need for a scope on a traditional ML I’ll repeat the above. A few years ago I was helping a Sheep rancher reduce the deer population that was decimating his wheat crop. The set up required shooting to 300+ yards so I dusted off the ‘98 fitted with a Douglas .30-06 barrel and a Leupold. 4 shots filled 4 of my 5 tags then back to the woods and a .54 flinter with fixed open sights.

Never thought about mounting a scope that way. Awesome and later you can still maintain the aesthetics of the ML.