45 Cal barrel wont shoot

[longcruise]

When you are at the range, pick up some of your patches and put some pictures up here. They should look like this.



Should not be even a hint of cutting or fraying.

Also, not all ml barrels are dead center of the barrel. The bore may be straight but not in a 90 degree alignment with the face of the Muzzle. So the crown may look perfect but being out of 90 can be problematic. This one is not very probable but possible. The cure is to have the Muzzle re faced with a hand tool using a bore guide.

 

[longcruise]

One other thing is, what is your wiping regimen? If you are not wiping between shots try with a damp patch. Not too wet, just damp.

 

[Bad Karma]

After reading all of the replies, two things occur to me. First, the manufacturer says you have a Seneca, and the manual says it has a 1 in 48 twist. Have you done a check? Very simple to test. Second, I am attaching a picture of a bore on a rifle I had. It just wouldn't shoot, even though the bore looked perfect using a bore light. A friend convinced me to buy a "Teslong" bore scope. It was only about $100.00 then. We almost fell over when we actually saw the bore. All the little white specks are fibers from the clean patches that were torn off as they went through!!!

Those Teslongs are the best and worst thing to happen to a muzzleloading shooter. Barrels that look like hell can often shoot very well. But yeah, I do think another view might be helpful.

 

[Ron Huff]

I am going to try and get a bore scope but if all goes well I will be able to shoot tomorrow and see if anything has improved. I will pick up some of my used patches as well patches as well. I will post some pics of what my results are.

 

[Ron Huff]

Shot for a couple of hours today, with no improvements. Borrowed a borescope from a Gun Smith, and the barrel shows no leading throughout.
Did quite a bit of shooting at 25 yards just to get a little bit of a group when I move back to 50 you can see the results. This is shooting from a solid rest barrel has been cleaned and multiple load combinations show the same results. These were shot using 70 g of Olde Eynsford 3F .020 patch and mink oil for lube. Aiming point was bottom of center red square.

 

[Ron Huff]

I appreciate everyone's input. I have been shooting BP for a long time and never had a barrel that I could not get a decent group from at 50 yards. Even some that were very rough. Today's range time consisted of around 30 total shots fired. As my dad used to say this dog wont hunt. Going to put it away and figure out another option for a roundball deer gun this year as I have put lots of effort into this barrel with zero results over the last year or so. I will figure out if I am going to part it out or reline it soon. Sights, under rib, thimbles and Breech plug could be used to make a new barrel I suppose but above my skill level so probably sell them off.

 

[BCS]

This is a hooked breech? Does it fit tight?
Is the cross pin tight?
Bedding problem?
Just my thoughts?

 

[Ka'imiloa]

I appreciate everyone's input. I have been shooting BP for a long time and never had a barrel that I could not get a decent group from at 50 yards. Even some that were very rough. Today's range time consisted of around 30 total shots fired. As my dad used to say this dog wont hunt. Going to put it away and figure out another option for a roundball deer gun this year as I have put lots of effort into this barrel with zero results over the last year or so. I will figure out if I am going to part it out or reline it soon. Sights, under rib, thimbles and Breech plug could be used to make a new barrel I suppose but above my skill level so probably sell them off.

You've sure given that rifle a helluva good try, Ron. Though I'm only seeing three shots at 50 here, I immediately take note that the shots are only 1" apart, horizontally, but "stringing" vertically. So I'm thinking like the other commentator, that perhaps there is something wrong with the setting of the barrel in the stock.
That's because such stringing is often due to varying velocity, yet you were shooting real B.P., and a very good one, and it is easy to ignite. So that leaves variation in the sight picture, which you've said is not likely, or variation in the discharge moment, such that the stock and barrel shift position somewhat at that moment of firing.
Try wrapping your barrel and stock real tight with electrical tape at the rear and front area of the barrel channel, and fire a few shots. Also think about what you are wearing at that moment of discharge that could allow or create gun movement during recoil: a slip-on recoil pad that doesn't fit well? A slick shirt or something like a backpack strap that the buttplate could be slipping on? Any possibility that your sight could be moving ? (You've probably already checked that.)
From all you've done, it seems to me that relining is not the answer. One other possibility, tho, is to get a barrel loan of the same gun and model and try five shots with it.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[Ron Huff]

Ya I have the barrel in the stock very tight and have a very steady rest. Sights are tight and load gives instant ignition. At 25 yards with a low hold I got a bit of a group but at 50 the lack of a tight group is magnified greatly. I have a line on another barrel and intend to purchase it as soon as I have a few more hours OT. Gonna just step away from this barrel for a while and put my 32 cal Barrel back on the stock and smoke some squirrels.

 

[Ron Huff]

Hooked breech tight fit wedge is tight. Just one that I can not get to shoot.

 

[Ka'imiloa]

Sure is a baffling barrel, Ron. I hope that one of these days you give all the rest of us, who are scratching our heads about this one, a followup report using this same thread so we'll see it.
The only thing that still comes to mind for me is: have you checked the orifice in your nipple to be sure it is not burned out and thus giving erratic ignition. This issue is a big deal with long range ML shooters who must keep their groups very tight. Many of them use platinum-lined nipples due to the higher pressures generated by shooting over and over using 500-550 gr. .45 bullets. Some report non -platinum nipples eroding in as little as 20 shots. This would not be much of an issue if shooting as you do, but what if a prior owner was pushing the envelope using slugs, and that nipple is still present? Suspect you have long since put in a new one, tho.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[Roy Alcorn]

how much do you want for the barrel

 

[Ron Huff]

New nipple from track of the wolf.

 

[exarcher]

No bore scope but can put a light inside and from what I see barrel is in great shape

these are good investment and are cheap now.. i ordered one on line for $9.99 today! (models attach to phones/computers) I have a hawkeye "rigid" bore scope that i bought 25 yrs or so ago for way over $400, (but it won't cover but a portion of a muzzleloader barrel)!

 

[exarcher]

I have a beautiful 45 Cal TC Seneca barrel that I can't get any accuracy from. I have tried every Patch, Ball, Lube and Powder Charge combo I can come up with and it is consistently high with intermittent fliers. Barrel is fitted tightly with no slop, and I can find no defects in the barrel. I even tried some saboted loads and conicals, sane results. Am going to contact Bobby Hoyt and see if a reline is possible with this 13/16ths 45 Cal barrel.

Are you the first owner? I fixed a few in line's (rem 700's gone bad) by soaking bore with acetone & cleaning out the plastic coating left by sabot's (which seem to be what most people use) & not visible... Hope you get it running good!

 

[Ron Huff]

Got a new barrel for this gun from a member here today. Cant shoot till Monday but checked it with a bore scope and excellent condition. Has much deeper rifling than my other barrel which I like but have never seen on a Seneca barrel. Range on Monday really excited about the new Barrel.

 

[Dennis Stankovitz]

After reading the OP's replies to the suggestions, I have one more before giving up the ghost and seeking out Mr. Hoyt. Spend some time with a tightly patched jag with JB Bore Paste. Scrub the bore from breech to muzzle a good 100 strokes adding additional bore paste as needed. If this doesn't solve the problem then, send the barrel off to Bobby Hoyt for a relining. The best part of going this route is that you will be able to request the rifling that you wish for shooting round ball or conicals or both.

 

[Dennis Stankovitz]

Have you checked the stock to make sure it’s not hitting anywhere. Barrel may not be sitting right.

 

[brad502a]

Have you checked the stock to make sure it’s not hitting anywhere. Barrel may not be sitting right.

Did you read any of the previous posts????

 

[Ron Huff]

Everything on this barrel has been checked and re-checked.