45 Cal barrel wont shoot

[Ron Huff]

1 in 48 twist I will order some JBs paste

 

[BCS]

Wrap some steel wool #4 around a wire 20 ga brush and use some lead remover.

This is a good place to start.

Or a small pc of a scrubbie pad on a smaller jag. With lube or lead remover.

 

[Pierre]

I have a beautiful 45 Cal TC Seneca barrel that I can't get any accuracy from. I have tried every Patch, Ball, Lube and Powder Charge combo I can come up with and it is consistently high with intermittent fliers. Barrel is fitted tightly with no slop, and I can find no defects in the barrel. I even tried some saboted loads and conicals, sane results. Am going to contact Bobby Hoyt and see if a reline is possible with this 13/16ths 45 Cal barrel.

My 50's only shoot accurately with mattress ticking and 495 lead balls. Might try different size balls and don't worry about hitting the bullseye...seek tight groups first then worry about the sights.

 

[Roy Alcorn]

Try tompsons #13 in the white bottle ,,,make patches moist not wet have used it for years also cleans bore as you shoot ,,an old fella showed it to me when I was seventeen, I' now 67 and still goin strong...

 

[Shorty]

you might also try a patch over the powder by itself, followed by a tightly patched ball. Idaho lewis’s trick..

 

[brad502a]

does a tight jag go down the bore with equal force? no tight or loose spots?

 

[Ron Huff]

Tight Jag no loose spots. I have tried everything I can think of with this barrel I will polish it with JBs but I have tried every Patch I can think of from .010 to an .020 with .440 and .445 balls. nothing changed. The .445 ball and .020 patch was crazy tight. I have shot at least 4 pounds of powder through this barrel while trying to get a group but nothing. If I could get a consistent group, I would look at a taller sight but nothing resembling a group at all. I appreciate all the advice but this one may get scrapped, and parts sold off or relined. This is the first TC Barrel that I could not get any consistency with.

 

[brad502a]

it almost sounds like the crown is not cut perpendicular to the bore.

 

[Shorty]

it almost sounds like the crown is not cut perpendicular to the bore.

Before scrapping it, cut an inch off and recrown it as brad suggested..

 

[Ron Huff]

Will think about that will try an polish the bore then make a decision

 

[Shorty]

Sounds like ur on the right track, good luck and hope it works out for you…

 

[brad502a]

don't really need to remove an inch in this case, don't wanna mess up the dovetail and ramrod rail. Just need to chuck it in a lathe and square it up, see if it makes a difference.

 

[Ka'imiloa]

What you are describing sounds like a smoothbore, or blown patches, or not enough spin on the ball. But anything over 30-40 gr. of 3F BP should give you enough spin with 1:48 twist. And by now you should have looked at lots of patches. If they are frayed at the edges of the ball's seat, or burnt thru here and there, you need 10 gr. of Creme of Wheat over your powder, or a lubed felt wad. I have never had a slanted muzzle, but if you are carefully loading your charges, the only variable is then that uneven muzzle, and even then it seems to me the balls should all be taking of at the same direction and at least modestly grouping.
Try lubed "pocket drill" patching and a tight fitting ball that is fairly hard to push down, and needs a short starter to load it.
Highly unlikely that your bore is so leaded up that the rifling is failing to work. I'd try 3/0 steel wool delicately wound onto a brass brush or better yet a long jag of a diameter that will allow this (perhaps a 40 cal. jag). See if any lead is coming out on the steel-wooled jag. It will be hard to work into the bore right at first and it is good to have an aluminum rod and a rod guide for doing this "honing". The JB bore paste is only for final polishing.
If you can feel no loose spots while loading you don't have a bulged barrel, and even that is not too bad a problem at times.
Having a look with a bore scope may well tell you if bad leading is ruining your rifling's effect, as in kid's shooting lead round balls for fun with no patching.
Last but not least, is the forend cross-pin actually holding the barrel firmly in place, or could it be jumping at firing? Or the barrel hook is loose in the breech?
Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[Ron Huff]

I have spent a few hours working on this barrel. I had a gunsmith check the crown no problems. I have polished with 000 steel wool followed by JBs Bore polish and have checked with a very tight patch and jag no loose spots. I am going to the range within the next few days and see if I find any improvement. Thanks for all of the advice. I took some bore pics and as far as I can tell the bore appears to be perfect. No signs of any previous corrosion and very crisp rifling. I will let you all know how it shoots after the polishing .

 

[Ka'imiloa]

I have spent a few hours working on this barrel. I had a gunsmith check the crown no problems. I have polished with 000 steel wool followed by JBs Bore polish and have checked with a very tight patch and jag no loose spots. I am going to the range within the next few days and see if I find any improvement. Thanks for all of the advice. I took some bore pics and as far as I can tell the bore appears to be perfect. No signs of any previous corrosion and very crisp rifling. I will let you all know how it shoots after the polishing .

Leading can be very misleading because it may well polish up and the bore looks good with a light in the bottom of the bore. One more thing to do is eliminate one more variable, yourself (no disrespect here, because you have tried loads of other things, just remarking.) Can you see the sights well? Is the trigger pull good, and without creep? Do you have any tendency to flinch? Are you shooting from a good rest, sitting, and at 50 yds to minimize wind effects? Do you have a friend who can take five shots with this rifle and compare that target to yours at your next range session? All these thoughts are worthy of consideration. Good luck.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[Ron Huff]

No disrespect taken. Barrel is clean of any fouling and tight in stock. Has double set trigger that I use and is very crisp. As far as flinching this is just one of many black powder guns that I shoot, and flinching is no problem. I am shooting from a bench with a very stable rest and the sights are very clear. Hopefully I will see better results next time I shoot after going through everything.

 

[edmehlig]

If I may ask have you ever slugged your bore? I know you are shooting patches and round balls, just curious if you ever tried a slightly tighter conical. I know my Whites that have a 451 bore, they like .451.5 or .452 lead conicals. I use Pure lead so they go down easy.

 

[Ron Huff]

I've never slugged the bore. I shot some conicals with poor results. Even tried some saboted rounds. My goal for this barrel was a light weight 45 caliber deer rifle. I shoot my 32 barrel for this gun on the same stock and its extremely accurate on squirrels.

 

[Ka'imiloa]

I've never slugged the bore. I shot some conicals with poor results. Even tried some saboted rounds. My goal for this barrel was a light weight 45 caliber deer rifle. I shoot my 32 barrel for this gun on the same stock and its extremely accurate on squirrels.

One other thought: years ago on the muzzleloader forum there was a big fuss about how round balls don't obturate (expand on firing) no matter the powder load. That is quite wrong. Put enough pressure on a lead or lead alloy ball or bullet and it will expand instantly (pure lead expands easiest of course, since the softest). If by chance your rifling is shallow (and you say the bore is quite smooth as well), it's possible you are shooting a light powder load and thus the ball is not expanding at all on firing and thus not getting adequately spun even with its patch. Try shooting a five shot group using your snuggest ball/patch combination AND 80 gr. of 3F BP. If you get a good group, then even an easier-to-load ball and patch may well work too.
It's also extremely important to remember that the rate of spin (rps, or revolutions per second) as the ball or bullet leaves the muzzle is dependent on the twist rate AND the velocity. Many shooters think only in terms of the twist rate.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[shiner200gr]

After reading all of the replies, two things occur to me. First, the manufacturer says you have a Seneca, and the manual says it has a 1 in 48 twist. Have you done a check? Very simple to test. Second, I am attaching a picture of a bore on a rifle I had. It just wouldn't shoot, even though the bore looked perfect using a bore light. A friend convinced me to buy a "Teslong" bore scope. It was only about $100.00 then. We almost fell over when we actually saw the bore. All the little white specks are fibers from the clean patches that were torn off as they went through!!!