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earlwb said:
That is a fascinating article for sure. Boat tail pointy bullets have always been shown in the bullet as having the best ballistic coefficients. So it is natural to think they are best for long range. But maybe that is the wrong way to think about it. But still if I remember correctly the boat tail bullets still have less bullet drop at range though. But with muzzle loaders we don’t get high velocities so maybe a boat tail would not help much if any. Still with a sabot it is sort of like making it into a flat base bullet until it leaves the barrel the the bullet and sabot part ways. Something that needs some testing for sure.
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Actually you have a relatively huge .451" bullet, with a BC about like a rock (.210) and are shooting it at low velocity. Just no help.
 
ENCORE50A said:
I have a dozen 290gr TMZ's you can have if you would like to test them against the 290gr T-EZ,, which I don't have any of.
.451" bullets and low velocities just don't really justify using boattails. However, I've used a lot of both.
If you want them, PM me an address and I'll be happy to send them to you.
Click to expand...
Got a bunch of both. Thanks. Been a few years, but I never was able to get the TMZs to shoot worth a hoot. I may break some out and try them again. Would be interesting to see someone shoot them and the TEZ with a Labradar.
 
bronko220002 said:
One thought just occurred to me. Am I going to need a 20 MOA rail for the 700 to reach out there?
Click to expand...
Do it.
Yes it depends on the scope and how much vertical adjustment you have. As a general rule, you might need the rail if you're at or near the maximum adjustment of your scope, with some scopes more than others. I've never had a rail that wasn't a 20moa. I'm currently running a 40moa, even with 100moa of total vertical adjustment in the scope. The 40moa rail is required for 1K shooting,, even with 100moa vertical adjustments. This is using high BC bullets and 120grs VOLUME of BH.
Unless finances are a consideration, I'd certainly go for the 20moa rail. Better to just do it right the first time as to have to do it over.
The rabbit hole has no bottom.........................
 
Well I just got my feet in the water. I didn't want to go too crazy due to my limited finances but last night I ordered a Vortex Diamondback 4-16X and a 20 MOA rail with Vortex Hunter rings.
Now the only problem is getting the time to shoot! I'm taking the wife to Florida for August and when I come back in Sept I'll have tree stands to hang and some painting chores to do. Then archery season starts the first weekend in October.
I guess I could tinker with it during mid-day or on Sundays. I hate to go to the range on the weekends - too busy. And then when guys see you shooting groups as tight as they do with their CFs they want to talk! I don't like being distracted when loading - that can be dangerous but I don't want to be rude either.
 
bronko220002 said:
Well I just got my feet in the water. I didn't want to go too crazy due to my limited finances but last night I ordered a Vortex Diamondback 4-16X and a 20 MOA rail with Vortex Hunter rings.
Now the only problem is getting the time to shoot! I'm taking the wife to Florida for August and when I come back in Sept I'll have tree stands to hang and some painting chores to do. Then archery season starts the first weekend in October.
I guess I could tinker with it during mid-day or on Sundays. I hate to go to the range on the weekends - too busy. And then when guys see you shooting groups as tight as they do with their CFs they want to talk! I don't like being distracted when loading - that can be dangerous but I don't want to be rude either.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you've got a full plate and that's a good thing. Keeping busy keeps a person healthy.
 
That's a lot of the problem with the 28 twist 50 Cals unless you're shooting big lead you're kind of limited if your goal is to go long distance with a sabot ,I agree that 300 grain Parker ballistic extreme would be a good bullet to try. We're all of the old 700 mL 28 twist or were some of them 26?. I have shot 28 twists rifles a lot I've spent so much time with 45 Cal smokeless, I have a project I'm working on and when it's completed I'm going to step away from the 45 and turn my attention to the 50 cal I'm I'm going to start with a 24 twist I'm going to order a 22 twist and then a 20 as I can afford each I have a feeling when it's all said and done that I'm going to find a faster twist 50 cal to be much much more versatile than the 28 twist we're given today again my goals will be accuracy and bullet diversity I want to be able to shoot heavy 452's in a harvester black or heavy 454s in the orange sabot, get the velocities that I want, shoot longer distances and shoot groups that are bullets touching I cannot do that with what we're given in our market currently, I know you can do that with big lead, I want to do it with jacketed bullets, and with bore riding again I want to be able to shoot anything from a 325fury up to a 500 grain,,,,,,sabots 250-400 gr .452s when I get through all that I will have an idea of what I need to put in a 50 cal to go to five or six hundred yards it's sure not going to be in a 28 twist Barrel.
 
Mnt monkey said:
That's a lot of the problem with the 28 twist 50 Cals unless you're shooting big lead you're kind of limited if your goal is to go long distance with a sabot ,I agree that 300 grain Parker ballistic extreme would be a good bullet to try. We're all of the old 700 mL 28 twist or were some of them 26?. I have shot 28 twists rifles a lot I've spent so much time with 45 Cal smokeless, I have a project I'm working on and when it's completed I'm going to step away from the 45 and turn my attention to the 50 cal I'm I'm going to start with a 24 twist I'm going to order a 22 twist and then a 20 as I can afford each I have a feeling when it's all said and done that I'm going to find a faster twist 50 cal to be much much more versatile than the 28 twist we're given today again my goals will be accuracy and bullet diversity I want to be able to shoot heavy 452's in a harvester black or heavy 454s in the orange sabot, get the velocities that I want, shoot longer distances and shoot groups that are bullets touching I cannot do that with what we're given in our market currently, I know you can do that with big lead, I want to do it with jacketed bullets, and with bore riding again I want to be able to shoot anything from a 325fury up to a 500 grain,,,,,,sabots 250-400 gr .452s when I get through all that I will have an idea of what I need to put in a 50 cal to go to five or six hundred yards it's sure not going to be in a 28 twist Barrel.
Click to expand...
The Ultimate is a 1:26 twist and will shoot 500yds. However I like your thinking on a faster twist for the 50's. I'll be interested in watching what the 24 twist will do.
 
bronko220002 said:
I hate to go to the range on the weekends - too busy. And then when guys see you shooting groups as tight as they do with their CFs they want to talk! I don't like being distracted when loading - that can be dangerous, but I don't want to be rude either.
Click to expand...
That is when I pack up and go home. Too easy to be distracted by people trying to have a conversation with you. Visit Hanks Message Board if you want to see what happens when a mistake is made.
 
I don’t think that one needs a super accurate gun. But it might help. During the Civil War the Confederate sharpshooters and even the regular troops were making some amazing kills at long range. One sniper shot a soldier 1,390 yards away at Fort Sumpter using a Whitworth rifle which is an exception for using a special gun. But Gen Sedgwick was likely killed by someone with a regular rifle though. I think that once you figure out the holdover and wind age needed you could lob those bullets tight on into the target. Wind would be your greatest challenge.
 
Earl , I have to hit what I'm shooting at,once I get out that far I think you need a super accurate gun myself if it's not putting bullets in the same hole at 100 yards I sure can't expect it to at a long distance. I'm not a studier of traditional Muzzleloader history and I know many are those men that made those shots like that do you think they shot just hoping or do you think they expected,, I would bet a man that could hit someone at those distances with the muzzleloaders up that time within normal ranges could put a bullet anywhere they wanted to. Now I will have to say this if you're just shooting for fun or trying to hit a big piece of Steel out at some tremendous distance maybe it doesn't take an accurate rifle maybe you can learn as you said to LOB bullets and hit that steel or that Target I promise you this if you take a very very accurate rifle and start the process of trying to shoot long distance you will come out way ahead.
 

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