1. Two/three Triumphs for the price of a 10ML BP? You can't buy a stainless steel Triumph for ANY price. The CLOSEST one can get with a Triumph to the 10ML BP is a Thompson/Center Triumph .50-Caliber Rifle ? Weather Shield/Realtree AP HD $529.99 at Cabela's(Midsouth has a similar muzzleloader for $503.07). I agree someone pinching pennies isn't going to purchase a 10ML BP but they aren't going to shell out $500.00 plus for a decked out Triumph either.
2. Function firing before leaving factory.... I have personally owned more than one muzzleloader(a few centerfires too!) that wouldn't go BOOM when the trigger is pulled...and a custom muzzleloader that was missing ACTION SCREWS. This is added insurance that things are properly put together before the consumer gets the product and that at LEAST someone took the time to test each and EVERY 10ML before it leaves the factory. I would think anyone could see the benefits of this...
3. Bases/rings... Some WILL use the included bases/rings. These are the same bases/rings included with the 10ML-II Value Pack that includes scope/mounts.
4. "3/8" socket head and socket wrench that I'll have to keep track of when I can just use my fingers on a triumph".... Fingers aren't always enough to remove the Triumphs breechplug, I have two of them. That's why they also include a breechplug tool as well. Wink
5. Both are fine muzzleloaders...they SHOULD be accurate..
6. Accu-Trigger adjustable trigger. One can't buy an adjustable trigger Triumph for ANY price. Easily worth $80-$100...at least it is to me. Without an adjustable trigger it is completely luck of the draw as to if one gets a good trigger or not.. Both of my Triumphs have good triggers..one at 3lbs 13 ounces and one at 3lbs 15 ounces...but not GREAT triggers. Let's not forget...NO hammer to fumble with especially in cold weather with gloves plus the has 10ML one of the best designed 3-position safeties around.
7. Strongest action, moot point? Completely a safety issue... Savage uses the same barrels as they would on a .458 Win Mag... The same action as a .300 Win Short Mag... Not a smokeless issue at all because many non-smokeless loads generate the same pressure as some smokeless loads. Safety issue in case of bore obstruction, double charging, etc...or other stupid human tricks some try! Very Happy
Thanks for the reply Big 6X6:
1) My argument is looking purely at functionality and performance relative to cost. Having a Triumph, or any gun for that matter, with camo stock, SS, weathershield is mostly a matter of looks. A person who takes good care of his gun will get just as good longevity from a blued barrel and normal stock. Besides, I've never understood the camo stock with SS barrel. You hide well from the animals until they see the sun glare off your barrel from 1/2 mile away! If you can get the same, or perhaps even better, overall functionality for half the price or better, it is simply hard to justify the extra cost unless you have money to spare. If you do, then this entire argument doesn't matter. If you're like many of us on this site, it is a considerable sacrifice to pursue and enjoy our sport and it is worth knowing how to get the most bang for your buck.
2) Function testing: You've most certainly owned more guns than I have, but this is the first time I've ever heard of anyone having a gun that wouldn't fire brand new. I'd be interested to hear if this has happened to anyone else.
3) So some may use the bases/rings, which you can find for cheap if you want to as well. I don't mind that they're included, but you end up paying many times more for them than you would by just picking some up yourself.
4) For speedbreech users: Anyone ever have to use a tool to loosen the breech plug with BH209? I'd be interested to hear it. I've put more than two jugs of BH209 through it and have never even so much as strained to get mine out with my fingers.
5) Thanks for the additional info about how the breech plug of the Savage breaks down, it looks like a nice feature and one that I would definitely appreciate on my triumph.
6) I've used the Triumph hammer with gloves and don't have any more difficulty with it than I do my bolt actions (which means no difficulty). I don't see the weakness to it. It certainly couldn't be any more inconvenient than trying to get a little primer in the breech plug located under your scope on a savage, especially with gloves on!
7) You're right about the trigger, but for regular a Joe like me, I don't know that it is worth the extra cost. So I might be able to tighten my groups from 1 1/2" to 1"? I'm a hunter, not a competition shooter. End result is the same dead animal.
8) I see your point about a strong action, but I'm not sure if the difference is significant. Will the barrel/action of a T/C or knight blow with a double charge? I thought they all were designed to withstand that. If I'm wrong, I'd be glad to know. Safety is always worth extra $$. But if you're talking about the difference between all barrels being able to hand double loads, but the Savage can handle a quadruple load with an obstruction, then I'll say that is really cool but inconsequential for real life situations.
So my point is this, if you have the money to buy every new thing that comes along, then you'll surely enjoy the new Savage. For me, unless you can show me something that will significantly improve functionality over something that costs 1/2 as much, then I just can't justify the expense. When I learned about Savage coming out with a ML that could shoot smokeless powder I thought, this is a gun that has something special, and possibly worth the extra money (until most states outlawed using smokeless powder during ML season). With this new model, after excitedly reading the report, I was left wondering what was so special about this new Savage model that justifies such an expensive gun? I'll stick with my cheap, black stock, blue barreled, tack driving Triumph for now thank you very much and anxiously await a manufacturer to come out with something truly special.
) but I enjoy shooting and owning the latest/greatest/newest muzzleloader available. I have hunted with nothing but for 9/10 years... I could have honestly probably successfully hunted everything to date with the second muzzleloader I had ever bought! But of course I didn't! :lol: Muzzleloading itself can certainly never be justified. In fact it is probably the most expensive means of taking game animals.. I can certainly not justify the cost of a new 10ML BP....but I can say the same for many if not most muzzleloaders... 
