PRICING OF BH 209 VIOLATES OBSENITY LAWS

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danders said:
this is America is it not. dont like it dont buy it.......

Is there a full moon out tonight??? Or did I already say that.

If we don't buy the powder then the company will have to wonder why and come to the same conclusion we did, it is too expensive. Then they will lower the price. That is how the system works, duh!

Remember folks, WE ARE THE MARKET!!!
 
DW

If I could get it for $27 here locally and not pay Hazmat that might be of some interest... no - I still couldn't justify it but iwould buy a couple of jugs for expreimenting and comparing...

But even comparing at the 300 grain level T7 is not that far behind...

Upping the powder charge to 110 grains of each powder pushes the Triple Seven velocity to 2,018 f.p.s. (with 2,353 f.p.e.) and the Blackhorn 209 velocity to 2,039 f.p.s. (with 2,400 f.p.e.). Note: These are all volume-measured charges.

There will be a larger gain with a 120 - 130 grain loads but it never separates that far.
 
squirrelhawker said:
Busta, there is no way the suggested retail is $29.99.

I really don't know, but thought I remembered reading that from one of the writers that tested it in the fall/winter 2007/2008 before it was available to us in April 2008. I did say I think, because I really don't know?

Oh, and you said " Trust me you will get better mileage out of BH209 than 777 in the heavier bullets or even the lighter bullets with heavier charges."
Using the same data from sabotloader.. the heaviest charges would
cost $.25 per shot with T7 and $.52 with BH. STILL 108% MORE! Cost was the point here, right? :?:

Fair enough, what I meant to relay, is in the 250 + grain bullets the velocities start favoring the BH and continue to do so up through the heavier bullets. As in the red in his chart would be on the other side.

I have shot enough of both powders to know there is more than just the price of the powder itself to consider. I always try to look at the 'big picture' when I use something. I can basically take just the rifle, powder, primers, and bullets out back to shoot when shooting BH209. I really don't even need a range rod, patches, Windex/spit, special primers that cost 2 times as much, anti-sieze for the breech plug, but NEED all those items when shooting 777. Wet and dry patches after every shot to remove the crud ring when shooting 777. Special expensive reduced charge 209 primers to try to reduce the crud ring. Some of these primers retail (recommended for 777) for $8 or $9 dollars, when standard 209 shotshell primers (recommended for BH209) can be had for $3 or $4.

BTW, you never answered me about the breechplug I offered you.

I would liike to talk to you about that, I didn't realize there was an offer. I will go back and try to find it, I must have missed it.

Found it! Sure, whatever measurements you need?

Now I am not saying BH will ever be cheaper to shoot than 777 loose, just like 777 pellets may never be cheaper than BH, but there are other factors to consider that cost you money to shoot 777, that are simply not needed to shoot BH. When it is all said and done, the added benefits, and my range time is much more enjoyable shooting BH209. VERY little smoke to contend with with BH, 777 smoke cloud will literally take your breath away it is so acrid. YMMV.

I am not trying to argue with you, just pointing out some other factors that need to be considered. If someone never tries something for themselves, they may never see it's benefits.
 
Well I will be glad when they get Black Mag XP on the market. For two reasons, first I want some for my traditionals, second I hear it will be a bit higher than BH so maybe it will give people some thing different to talk about. Lee
 
Lee 9 said:
Well I will be glad when they get Black Mag XP on the market. For two reasons, first I want some for my traditionals, second I hear it will be a bit higher than BH so maybe it will give people some thing different to talk about. Lee

Why Lee, what a terrible thing to say!! :p
Hey, I heard that Black Mag XP sucked up water like a sponge... only kidding..smile buddy.
P6280082.jpg
 
Rafsob said:
danders said:
this is America is it not. dont like it dont buy it.......

Is there a full moon out tonight??? Or did I already say that.

If we don't buy the powder then the company will have to wonder why and come to the same conclusion we did, it is too expensive. Then they will lower the price. That is how the system works, duh!

Remember folks, WE ARE THE MARKET!!!

Hey Rafsob, I cant remember when I had this much fun!! You are exactly right. On all counts. :lol:
 
Busta said:
squirrelhawker said:
Busta, there is no way the suggested retail is $29.99.

I really don't know, but thought I remembered reading that from one of the writers that tested it in the fall/winter 2007/2008 before it was available to us in April 2008. I did say I think, because I really don't know?

Oh, and you said " Trust me you will get better mileage out of BH209 than 777 in the heavier bullets or even the lighter bullets with heavier charges."
Using the same data from sabotloader.. the heaviest charges would
cost $.25 per shot with T7 and $.52 with BH. STILL 108% MORE! Cost was the point here, right? :?:

Fair enough, what I meant to relay, is in the 250 + grain bullets the velocities start favoring the BH and continue to do so up through the heavier bullets. As in the red in his chart would be on the other side.

I have shot enough of both powders to know there is more than just the price of the powder itself to consider. I always try to look at the 'big picture' when I use something. I can basically take just the rifle, powder, primers, and bullets out back to shoot when shooting BH209. I really don't even need a range rod, patches, Windex/spit, special primers that cost 2 times as much, anti-sieze for the breech plug, but NEED all those items when shooting 777. Wet and dry patches after every shot to remove the crud ring when shooting 777. Special expensive reduced charge 209 primers to try to reduce the crud ring. Some of these primers retail (recommended for 777) for $8 or $9 dollars, when standard 209 shotshell primers (recommended for BH209) can be had for $3 or $4.

BTW, you never answered me about the breechplug I offered you.

I would liike to talk to you about that, I didn't realize there was an offer. I will go back and try to find it, I must have missed it.

Found it! Sure, whatever measurements you need?

Now I am not saying BH will ever be cheaper to shoot than 777 loose, just like 777 pellets may never be cheaper than BH, but there are other factors to consider that cost you money to shoot 777, that are simply not needed to shoot BH. When it is all said and done, the added benefits, and my range time is much more enjoyable shooting BH209. VERY little smoke to contend with with BH, 777 smoke cloud will literally take your breath away it is so acrid. YMMV.

I am not trying to argue with you, just pointing out some other factors that need to be considered. If someone never tries something for themselves, they may never see it's benefits.

No worries here Busta, I dont think of this as arguing. Sometimes when I re-read my posts, they sound sarcastic...dont mean it that way..or in a bad way :) I know what you mean about the big picture and all. I have been shooting muzzleloaders and been reloading for about 25 yrs. or so myself.
Those benefits you mention are worth something. Twice as much to shoot though ?...that was my point. If it is worth it to you, that is fine. I dont want to seem to be looking down at you for that. Dont mean it that way.I think I may have mentioned to you a while back in an e-mail about a few of the non-approved powders I have been using for the last few years. I have already been getting those benefits you speak of and for probably one fifth the cost to shoot as the BH. That spoils a feller I guess. I know, that isnt the subject here and now but chemically the BH is smokeless, at least in the opinion of some..and possibly some DNR's.

I will get back with you tomorrow about the plug...getting late.
 
squirrelhawker
Well Black Mag 3 certainly did But they are supposed to have remedied that with XP. For 30 dollars a jug they certainly should have, I hear they are also working on a pan powder for flinters. I kind of choked on that. Lee
 
Squirrelhawker, you do have a point. So many thoughts and ideas on these forums. It is very refreshing and yes fun!

I will admit to the advantages to this powder, put maybe I just like the idea of working with the original stuff (BP). It really doesn't have any issues like the synthetic stuff and can be very reliable when it counts the most.
 
Lee 9 said:
squirrelhawker
Well Black Mag 3 certainly did But they are supposed to have remedied that with XP. For 30 dollars a jug they certainly should have, I hear they are also working on a pan powder for flinters. I kind of choked on that. Lee

I was just having some fun. Too much time on my hands I guess. Hopefully the XP will be a fine product. Isnt that one of those that was based on ascorbic acid?
 
Spitpatch's comment got me to worrying. Cap and Trade may put an end to casual shooting or at least tax hell out of it. Maybe we ought to read the fine print. :roll:
 
squirrelhawker

Here is a target shot 9-6 with my Knight using both powders with a .458/300 grain bullet. The gun was brand new and I was out just shooting to see what it might do. You can see there is a difference in velocity between the two powders. Using T7-3f would reduce the difference maybe half. My question how much real-life difference does 100 fps second make in 200 yards?

I am thinking about running another spreadsheet with the 50 cal and both powders - just do not know when I could get it in...

9-6KnightTarget.jpg
 
Underclocked said:
Maybe we ought to read the fine print. :roll:

Why do that, the Congress and reps didn't think that was necessary. 1300 pages and they voted on it after "NOT" reading the big print, let alone the fine. And they wonder why they, congress, has such a low aproval rating.

we need to flush teh congress down the tiolet and start a new!!!
 
UC

Spitpatch's comment got me to worrying. Cap and Trade may put an end to casual shooting or at least tax hell out of it. Maybe we ought to read the fine print.

It would be nice if they read this one since it doesn't seem that they read the last one....
 
sabotloader said:
squirrelhawker

Here is a target shot 9-6 with my Knight using both powders with a .458/300 grain bullet. The gun was brand new and I was out just shooting to see what it might do. You can see there is a difference in velocity between the two powders. Using T7-3f would reduce the difference maybe half. My question how much real-life difference does 100 fps second make in 200 yards?

I am thinking about running another spreadsheet with the 50 cal and both powders - just do not know when I could get it in...

9-6KnightTarget.jpg
Maybe would shoot 1.5" lower (w/100 yd. zero)and minus about 100 fpe. For what its worth.
 
I can get BH 209 for $29 near me. I will try it for that and probably use it for hunting for faster reloads. I will stick with trip7 for general shooting; it has been a great all around product for me and I don?t mind swabbing between shots when time is not critical. It gives the gun a chance to cool down.
 
thaner

While I do not see myself switching - I think your proposal has a lot of merit. It should work just fine for you once you verify the difference in POI from T7 to BH...
 
Had a $50 bass pro gift card so I bought a can of BH and a box of 30-06 shells... when she rang up the BH it said $42.00... :shock: Were it not for the gift card I would have said hell no!
 
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