My First Rescue Rifle MK-95 Updated.. First range trip

[ShawnT]

Today I received a .50 cal Knight MK-95 Magnum Elite that I got from a Pawn Shop in Utah. I saw the Pictures and it had places that told you it was used, just as advertized. The Pick that concerned me was the Action Pic that showed lots of black around the Breech Plug. I called and chatted with the guy that had it advertized and he told me up front he did not really know much about ML's. He said the Black stuff seemed "Oily" and most wiped off with a towel. He had no tool to pull the breech plug and was not even sure how to take this rifle apart anyway. I went ahead and bought it as a "parts" rifle. There are no more parts made for these, it was discontinued at the end of 1997. Last time I spoke to Knight (New Knight) the only part they had was the breech plug. A couple years ago I accidently broke the small bolt handle for mine and had to have a smith make me one, cost me $40. So I figured that spending the $120 (shipped) he wanted was worth it to get it for parts and If I could shoot it that would be a bonus. It at least has the Posi-Fire ignition (Large Rifle Primer) that I really like in the MK-95 I have been shooting for the past 15-16 years.

I was a bit suprized that the Plug was only slightly stuck and not Frozen, no heat required. It was obvious though that the Plug was ruined when I shined a light in the Case (38spl Speer Plastic Target case) area since the area around the Flash hole was rusted! After removing the Plug I was really shocked at what I saw. The Powder side of the plug was caked with rust. Even on the face that contacts the shoulder in the barrel, flash hole is totally rusted over! Plug is toast! I looked up the bore from the action and it was blocked!! :shock: First thought was it has a charge in it. Turned out to be a Wad of patches that were black and brown. This was obviously what held moisture against the plug as it had been pressed hard enough to be pressed down into the recess of the plug a bit. It is hard to tell if the "Black" was from powder fouling. I say that because most of the bore and the action were fairly clean, considering. It may have been a little bit of fouling and grease combined, at least that is my thinking. I spent a good bit of time and was able to scrub the bore clean, some JB too. again to my suprise, and relief, the bore actually cleaned up very well with only 3 very small pits (got to really look for them) that are just in front of the Breech plug where that wad of patches were. The Threads look real good and even the face of the bore that the breech plug face contacts was OK! There were a couple small rust spots on the bolt that cleaned up pretty good too, just need to keep them lubed. Comparing this one to my other rifle it does not have the usual Pitting caused by flame cutting on the face of the bolt around the primer or in the action next to the BP. In some ways this thing looks like it was not shot much at all just not properly cleaned and lubed.

The Stock had been bedded, including the barrel channel, then painted black. Finish on the stock is a tad rough in places. The Paint is chipped off on the tip of the forend. The Ramrod Keeper spring is coated with a gobb of paint or bedding and seems flattened out some. There was an accessory item on the ramrod thimble that I had never seen before and had originally thought it was a cobbled up peice of plastic pipe in the pics that was sent. It turned out to be a gizmo that slips over the thimble and had a plastic screw that enters one of the holes in the original thimble to apply a small amount of pressure on the ramrod, interesting.

Trigger is a Timney (Yea!), it looks ok as well as the other parts. So overall this one looks like it will actually be a pretty good one when I am done. Here are a few pics of the worst.

This is the Breech plug, Bolt Side.


Powder side, that is the wad of patches next to it.


These are of the Gizmo that was on the thimble.

 

[wolfer]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

Shawn, I be thinkin not all lost on der plug. Wire brush it and clean up as best as can, use "drain cleaner" lightly if necessary. Always can drillpress out dat plug and gets a 'veent liner" treaded in der, likes frum a SMI or Savages plug. I hab done a bunch of reconstitutions frun less snickety fellers dat stored de ML and fergets bout it and not check for years, or doan clean an you know what den. I allus use that plumbin thread tape on mer breech plugins. Never had a sticked one yet wif dat treatment and no fowlen leakage eider. Ur description showed you doin a thourough job. Your cost seemed high but for a parts when nuffin available it aint bad. You be endin up 2 gunned in dat model.

I Gets dem ML that's abused and "put up wet" and rehab dem and sell fer sum xter $. I hab onley dun 1 Knight and it were easy and just looked real bad but cleaned up nice, they hab dat quality and such. My preference is rehabin dem remmy 700ML, Ruger 77/50, Savage ML, White Rifles, and TCs from the early years like Thunder Hawk-Fire Hawk-Black Diamond.

Dat JB is nice stuff but I'm suggestin dat "Turkle Wax Chrome Polish" is great stuff for getting dat bore polished up.

Aint it great to takes a gun lukin trashed out and make it good again! Let allus know how she B shootin too. W

 

[GM54-120]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

EvapOrust on SS. It will remove bluing IIRC.

Mothers Metal Polish is a tiny bit more abrasive than chrome polish but chrome polish seems to remove rust better. Those "buttons" Brownwell sells for the JB/Kroil application look like a great idea too. You can probably make your own with a hole punch and wool wads. Plus a screw and two brass washers.

 

[ShawnT]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

wolfer,

It was pretty good to get it back to decent shape so far. Some Guys just should not be allowed to have an ML. :wink: The Posi-Fire Breech plug is not one you could put a ventliner in. They are way different from the 209 plugs. These have a very shallow web that the flash hole is in, between action side and powder side. No enough meat for threading. It could be done if a guy had a lathe to open the plug up, thread and make a custom insert. Too much work at the moment, but if they stop carrying the plug that would be different. I have 3 spare plugs so it is not that big of a deal.

GM,

I heard of the evaporust but never saw any. If I could find some I might try it on this plug just for curiosity. There do you usually find it, hardware or Autoparts stores?

There is a very slight ring of rust or pitting just at the beginning of the threads where the BP stops but not on that little shelf that seals the BP. I did not see it yesterday, but I used a bit more light today, still not bad. I can't really get good pics of the bore with my camera but may give it another try tomorrow when I work on it more. I will try lapping it some more but if I can find some of the evaporust may give it a try first. Better than 99% of the bore cleaned up like a new one. I really think that the problem was it was shot only a couple times and just not properly cleaned and lubed. I am pretty sure they gave it a cursory cleaning, including removing the BP (no grease or tape on it when put back) just did not clean the way we would clean it. For the life of me I cannot imagine why they left the wad of patches rammed down into the end of the bore and plug. :huh?: I am sure that if they had not left that wad of patches in there the bore and plug would have been like new. Shame, but looks like I got it just in time to prevent real damage.

I emailed Knight out of curiosity to see if they have anymore plugs.

 

[stevenm2]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

shawn PM sent

 

[ShawnT]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

Stevenm2,

Pm returned. Thanks for the offer.

I think some might be thinking that there is a typeo in my post when I called the rifle and MK-95. This is the Knight MK-95 Magnum Elite. It came with 2 types of ignition, the #11, and the Posi-fire ignition that uses a Speer 38 special plastic target case to hold a large rifle primer. This is the Predecessor to the Knight DISC rifle and orange disc.

Here is a Picture of a New Unfired on plug showing the bolt side hole for the case.

This pic shows the plug and a Speer case.

With Case inserted in the Plug.

My Babies action (not the rescue).


The hole in the Plug that the Speer case goes is tapered so as to "squeeze" down on the case and provide a good seal, works really well. I have hunted this rifle in same nasty weather, heavy rain and snow/sleet. Goes bang every time!

 

[Hornet22savage]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

Thanks for the picI have neve ractually seen a picture of the action.

 

[wolfer]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

never seed a plug like that on a Knight. Seen some CF conversions similar but dats neat. Can you use real 38 brass, cut down if needs be? I aint so much for plastique cept for shotgun shells. Good informative tread. Wolfer

 

[GM54-120]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

ShawnT

You can get Evapo-Rust at Autozone IIRC. Its probably the same product as CLR (in a different bottle and some dye added) or at least its very similar. Rust911 i believe is another very similar product. All are non toxic, relatively safe and mix with water. These products seem to work best at no less than 60F and even better around 130F.

When i built high pressure pumps and equipment, sometimes we had to use SS fittings. On SS fittings/pipes we used (EPA approved) industrial grade vinegar based products to clean old fittings and pipes. Mostly just to remove calcium deposits but it did ok on surface rust spots too. This type of vinegar is not like what you get in super markets, it will burn your skin.

Naval jelly is also very good but you have to be careful with phosphoric acid? products. I bet it would be fine on the breach plug and its works pretty fast. Just wear rubber gloves and eye protection. Ive also used hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acids on SS holding tanks but ONLY with proper ventilation and "hazmat" suits. Flumes can knock you to the ground in seconds if you are not careful. I was nearly killed one day and i will never forget the experience with the hydrofluoric/hydrochloric acid reacting with the deposits in the tank.

Polishing compounds
Now........ i know most people use JB but most auto parts stores carry several metal polish products like White Diamond, Fitzs and Mothers metal polish. IMO many of these products are very similar to higher priced "bore shines". Even polishing wheel "sticks" and valve grinding compounds work if you are careful. Tooth paste with baking soda also works as a polish on some materials....Do you have a cloudy headlight lens on your car?...try it sometime on a small spot and see what you think of the results.

BTW have you ever tried using 357mag, 38S&W or 38Special brass cut down to fit your MK95 plug? Im only guessing but if you get the correct head spacing, real brass should work with a very slight crush fit. I would also try putting a "sleeve in the brass or plastic practice cases to reduce the volume of the case which should increase energy/heat delivered to the powder. Less would be wasted in that relatively large case volume. I also wonder if a machinist could make some reusable thick brass cases with a 1/8th" flash channel within the case and LRM or LPM primers. Just leave a thin lip near the plug side to help seal or cut a recess for a o-ring.

What is the OAL of the Speer plastic cases? 38Short Colt and 38S&W are around .765 and .775 respectively.

 

[ShawnT]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

BTW have you ever tried using 357mag, 38S&W or 38Special brass cut down to fit your MK95 plug? Im only guessing but if you get the correct head spacing, real brass should work with a very slight crush fit. I would also try putting a "sleeve in the brass or plastic practice cases to reduce the volume of the case which should increase energy/heat delivered to the powder. Less would be wasted in that relatively large case volume. I also wonder if a machinist could make some reusable thick brass cases with a 1/8th" flash channel within the case and LRM or LPM primers. Just leave a thin lip near the plug side to help seal or cut a recess for a o-ring.

What is the OAL of the Speer plastic cases? 38Short Colt and 38S&W are around .765 and .775 respectively.

Can you use real 38 brass, cut down if needs be? I aint so much for plastique cept for shotgun shells

Gm and wolfer,

Yea I have tried a couple times to get regular 38spl cases to work. They are ok. BH and Pyro does cause enough carbon build up that cause the cases to stick. That is how I broke a bolt handle off once. The Brass uses a small pistol/rifle primer and the Speer Plastic case uses a Large Rifle primer. The Speer Plastic case was designed to propel a plastic bullet under pressure of the Large rifle primer only, for indoor practice. The Speer Plastic Target case is .680 oal. I did cut brass cases down till the bolt just closed smooth and that was at .709 oal. The real issue with using the 38 brass is that the BP has a tapered hole, gets smaller toward the flash hole. The Speer cases are tapered on the inside of the case but the BP taper causes them to Speeze down and seat tight enough to seal up. The Brass cases must be resized if used or new, otherwise it will not start in the plug due to the taper. I have thought about trying to make up some "Brass Cases" from solid brass rod that is tapered to match, and also cut a smaller "Flash Channel" in it. I don't have access to a lathe though and it would be expensive to get it done here. I missed out on a real good buy a couple months ago on a table top hobby lathe that may have been the real cats meow to experiment in that direction. Maybe one day. If this "rusty" plug cleans up good enough, maybe I can figure out a way to remove the internal taper so that a brass case would work easier. Might then be able to make some from solid rod.

GM,
I got some of the evaporust at PepBoys Autoparts this morning. The plug is soaking so we will see what it comes out like.

I am going to start lapping the bore just a little more at the lead to see if I can smooth that small pitting around the beginning of the lands and grooves. Actually I have a few things I can try using to lap it with. I have some scope ring lapping compound, JB, Flitz, Iosso, and some sticks somewhere. I just want to clean it up some not remove too much metal.

 

[ShawnT]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

Finished Cleaning, Lapping and polishing the bore today. At first I had a little trouble starting a patch from the action end due to the rust/pitting. After scrubbing & lapping at the small rusted area of the bore lead, the patch now starts smoothly. There is a bit of pitting here but is only part way around a 1/3rd of the radius and about 1/16 to 1/8" long. So not as bad as it could have been. I could not remove any more but definitely smoothed it out. I tried several times to take a pic of it but my camera (or me) is just not capable of a bore shot to show that.

I also soaked the BP in the evaporust overnight, ocassionally brushing it. It did remove a lot of the rust but did not penatrate the flash hole, but may have softened it. I had to use a .027 and .031 drill (twisted by hand)to open it up then cleaned it with a welding tip cleaner. I then took a peice of scotch brite pad and some JB spun with a drill to polish it a little. Came out better than I expected, but not sure I will actually use it. Site of it just sort of bothers me, but I might use it for initial shooting. Here is the plug after cleaning.

Speer case side.

Powder side.

 

[GM54-120]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

I think Lehigh needs to take a look at the plug and just maybe he could make a new one for brass cases or modules that is BH209 compatible. :mrgreen:

 

[ShawnT]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

I think Lehigh needs to take a look at the plug and just maybe he could make a new one for brass cases or modules that is BH209 compatible. :mrgreen:

Actually this plug shoots BH just fine, with the speer case and CCI LRM Primer. :shock: I found as long as I stay at 100gnV or under it is ok (rifle is rated for 120gn), anymore and the speer case blows out in the primer pocket. My longest ML Kill was on a doe at 206yds (lazered to target and back from target) with 100gnV of BH and a 300gn DC.

But yea I have an idea on making up a set of Brass "Cases" for LR primer, modifying the plug to no taper but leave only a couple thou more diameter than the case, have the case bottom in the plug with bolt closed, and have a smaller ID flash channel. Maybe some day, I will find another buy on a little table top lathe to experiment with. I have a cousin that is a machinest, but I never really see him since he is in Ohio and I am in NY, plus he is way to busy for my little project.

I missed one of these for about $175 shipped a while back. Would have been just the ticket for this. http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html

 

[ShawnT]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

Spent some time this afternoon cleaning up the stock. There was some sort of bedding, I think, in the barrel channel that was not done properly. Acted like it was some sort of thin layer of glass. It just chipped off. Used a small gouge and flat chisel to scrape it off. In the second picture you can see some of it lifted up with a pick. Not sure what they were thinking here as it was not needed in the barrel channel and yet the action had almost nothing in it. :huh?:



This one might be a good one to send out to Sabotloaders Friend BigDipper.

 

[flounder]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

This looks like the Gizmo on your thimble:
http://www.gunauction.com/search/displa ... m=12248342

 

[ShawnT]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

This looks like the Gizmo on your thimble:
http://www.gunauction.com/search/displa ... m=12248342

Hey flounder,

Yup that is it. I don't recall ever seeing it before, but it was obvious it was not something cobbled up since it fits the thimble so well. I was looking at it this afternoon and it does "Lock" the ramrod in place. But if you reform the flat spring in the stock it does a pretty good job of holding the rod. I never really had an issue with it.

It only took me about 20 minutes to remove all the bedding/paint crap that was in the stock Sunday. I got some more teflon tape today and put the rifle back together. I will try the reclaimed plug and see how it does. Another odd thing I noticed today was that the ramrod did not go out to the end of the barrel. So I went and got the one on my other rifle and found this one was 3/4" short (23 1/4"). Closer look shows a small silver ring (no black finish) next to the threaded insert on the end of the rod that goes into the stock. Looks like for some reason the rod was shortened by 3/4 inch. Maybe they had some type of Jag tip on the rod and did not like it sticking out past the muzzle. It seemed just about the right amount for a Barnes loading jag. I have a couple of those and when I screwed one into the rods jag, it did come flush to the muzzle. Thats my guess anyway. Waiting for some bases to arrive this week. I ordered some Weaver bases instead of Leupold. I thought I already had rings, but turned out I did not. I also ordered some Weaver Sure Grip rings to try. They look almost like the regular top mount rings except they use 4 screws instead of the claw on one side.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/618914 ... cm_vc=S014

My Club has pistol, smallbore, and Highpower matches this weekend so guess it will be a couple weekends before I can shoot.

 

[ShawnT]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95

Well today I got a reply from Knight about a new Posi-Fire Breech plug. They forwarded my email to Sam Belloma and he said they had no more Breech plugs for the Posi-fire ignition. He said they only the BP for the #11 ignition. I figured this would eventually happen but had hoped they might have a couple left. Guess it is a good thing they last a long time. Maybe the "Reclaimed" BP will have to become and experimental.

 

[ShawnT]

Re: My First Rescue Rifle MK-95 Update First range trip

Was a Great day at the range this morning. I got to the range a bit after 7:30 and it was overcast, no wind and about 69*. 8) I took my Anshutz .22rf to try out some new ammo and keep me from shooting the ML to fast so I set up at 50 yards. I decided to start with 85gnV Pyrodex RS and use up some Pr bullets 300gn Dead Centers in the supplied green sabot. I also shot a few of my old favorite, the 310gn Knight lead HP.

I did have one very interesting problem pop up. The First shot actually opened the bolt and pushed the plunger back enough for the speer case to come out! :shock: Normally after the shot I pull the plunger back, open the bolt and just roll the rifle to the right and the case falls out in my hand. I did not really notice that the bolt opened and the case had came out. Just as I went to clear the action, one of the club old timers walked up and started asking me something redirecting my attention. We have a couple that we all have to keep an eye on as they sometimes have some small memory lapses that could cause some issues so we just all like to keep an eye on them. Anyway while I was listening to him, I pulled the plunger, opened the bolt and rolled the rifle over and felt no case drop into my hand. :huh?: I look around and saw it on the ground so I just assumed I missed catching it. After getting hi squared away, I went back and reloaded. Next shot was only about 1/2 inch from the first with just off the paper low about 5"vertically and about 1" right of center. I adjusted the scope vertically and shot 4 more rounds. Not too bad, first group is the one center but to the right.

I then upped the charge to 100gnV and shot 3 more 300gn Dead Centers. Point of aim was at the to of the red boxes where the black dot is. Looks better
Next target I switched to the Knight 310gn HP and stayed with 100gnV charge. Not sure what happened to the first one but it loaded very hard for some strange reason. I was swabbing with windex between rounds too.

I then decided to clean the plug and bore and switch to 777 2f powder and use that up and save my Pyrodex for the .54cal. After cleaning and popping one primer I loaded up 100gnV of 777 and another 300gn Dead Center. First round went high and right.
I now notice the bolt has unlatched and was back just about 1/4" and the speer plastic case is split open! :shock: :huh?: Never had that happen with my original MK-95, but it confirmed that the first one had actually opened the bolt and came out and was not me just missing catching the case. I looked down into the opening for the case and there looks to be a lot more fouling from blow back than normal. I wipped some carbon off with a Q tip, looked the action over a bit and decided to shoot another round, but pay close attention to the bolt. Next 4 shots no problem but the case was hanging up in the slot on the bolt some. I decided to swap out the Breech plug (this was the plug I soaked in evaporust and scrubbed the rust off of). I had another BP that had only a couple rounds on it so I wrapped it up with teflon tape, swabbed out the action, threads and bore, and installed the new BP. I shot the same 100gnV of 777 and 300gn Dead Center. I am not sure what happened to the first shot, but it was probably just me paying attention to the bolt position after the shot. Group was ok but a little big for 50yds. The good news was the new plug took care of the problem. It stayed closed and much cleaner.

After I got home I cleaned the old plug and checked the flash hole. I was able to manually work a .040 drill bit in and found the hole was a bit ragged and not really round. looks like after the first shot the carbon started sealing up the plug a tad so it did not get as much blow back as it did with the first shot. So that plug is deemed scrap! Overall the rifle appears that it will be a good shooter like my other MK-95. Just need to tweek it some.