CVA optima v2 loading question

[Having fun now]

New to muzzleloader. 50 cal CVA. Have some power belt 295 gr aero bullets with green tips that load fine and shoot around 1” at 100 yds. Bought some Barnes tmz 250 gr bullets and hph 24 black sabots and it is an extreme struggle trying to get one down the barrel. Using blackhorn 209 powder also. Groups are 3+ inches at 100. Any suggestions for easier loading as I would love to try the Barnes for deer. I know most everybody hates the power belt but they shoot great and seems hard to believe bloodtrails and bullet performance is that bad with them.
Any suggestions?

 

[Fullbore92]

I know that the MMP hph24 are one of the larger diameter sabot. At the top of the inline page you’ll see a thread about different sabot and bullet diameter. It’s some really great info to have.

 

[Having fun now]

Thanks I will check it out

 

[toytruck]

Try Harvester smooth and/ or ribbed sabot's. Both load snug, not tight, in my optima V2 rifle. The smooth is a tad more accurate with 300 XTP .452

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

The TMZ is a boattail bullet, the HPH 24 is for a flat based bullet. I would recommend using Harvester crushed rib sabots designed for the boattail bullet
50 Cal Crushed Rib Sabot for .451 Cal Boattail Bullet - Pack Qty: 50

 

[GM54-120]

I know that the MMP hph24 are one of the larger diameter sabot.

That would be incorrect. Loaded up with a Barnes its between .503 and .504 OD which is fine for lands around .500. Barnes are tyipcally a bit smaller than a SST/FTX/XTP by .001 or slightly more.

 

[Fullbore92]

That would be incorrect. Loaded up with a Barnes its between .503 and .504 OD which is fine for lands around .500. Barnes are tyipcally a bit smaller than a SST/FTX/XTP by .001 or slightly more.

You are correct. My mistake. I was thinking of the hph 12.

 

[rangerod]

You might want to try the MMP 3-PETAL EASY. As far as I know they are the smallest diameter available.

 

[GM54-120]

You might want to try the MMP 3-PETAL EASY. As far as I know they are the smallest diameter available.

T/C SuperGLide sabots are really small too IIRC but the OP is shooting boattail TMZs so he really should try the Harvester yellow sabot first.

I dont remember these being very small
https://www.harvestermuzzleloading....sabot-for-451-cal-boattail-bullet-pack-qty-50
Knight sells a smaller blue boattail sabot but they stab you $15 for shipping them.
https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product/blue-ez-load-bt-muzzleloader-sabots/

 

[rangerod]

I wonder if I'd make any difference shooting a boat tail with a regular sabot?

 

[GM54-120]

Not sure. One of the best boattail loads i ever shot was with a very tight regular sabot. A few guys shot the same Barnes 300gr SOCOM in 52x458 sabots in their 52s and they shot fine too so it is possible.

 

[MeatMachine]

If you want all copper try the federal borlock or if not the hornady bore driver. They both should load fairly easy but the federal has a additional benefit of cutting through the triple seven crud ring like it’s nothing.

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

Re: Powerbelts...I'd love to see some testing on what happens to them if you push them with far less powder than most do. My suspicion is that because these are soft lead bullets with plating on them, they are fragmenting as badly as they are reported to do because they are being pushed too hard. Two pellets is equivalent to 100 grains...When I shoot my conical bullets, whether great plains, no excuses, bull shop...the highest I would go is 80 but in reality, I use 65-70 and have had success with the load at 50 yards on deer. Now, those bullets are heavier...so that is something to think about. Anyway...it is just something I'd like to see testing on rather than just speculation over.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Re: Powerbelts...I'd love to see some testing on what happens to them if you push them with far less powder than most do. My suspicion is that because these are soft lead bullets with plating on them, they are fragmenting as badly as they are reported to do because they are being pushed too hard. Two pellets is equivalent to 100 grains...When I shoot my conical bullets, whether great plains, no excuses, bull shop...the highest I would go is 80 but in reality, I use 65-70 and have had success with the load at 50 yards on deer. Now, those bullets are heavier...so that is something to think about. Anyway...it is just something I'd like to see testing on rather than just speculation over.

Heres a link to a couple links to @ronlaughlin PB tests

Power belt test
I think 80grV of bh209 is too much for them but a little distance may improve their performance, these are 25yd tests.

 

[Having fun now]

Got some yellow crush ribs for boat tails on the way. Will see how that goes. May try the federal bor lock or horn Andy bore drivers also. Thanks for all the help.

 

[10gaugemag]

Re: Powerbelts...I'd love to see some testing on what happens to them if you push them with far less powder than most do. My suspicion is that because these are soft lead bullets with plating on them, they are fragmenting as badly as they are reported to do because they are being pushed too hard. Two pellets is equivalent to 100 grains...When I shoot my conical bullets, whether great plains, no excuses, bull shop...the highest I would go is 80 but in reality, I use 65-70 and have had success with the load at 50 yards on deer. Now, those bullets are heavier...so that is something to think about. Anyway...it is just something I'd like to see testing on rather than just speculation over.

A member on another forum uses them for elk. If I remember correctly he likes to stay around 80 grains ouf powder.

Pure lead so they don't need to be pushed hard for maximum expansion.

 

[10gaugemag]

Got some yellow crush ribs for boat tails on the way. Will see how that goes. May try the federal bor lock or horn Andy bore drivers also. Thanks for all the help.

Shoot me a PM if you want to try some 270 grain BOR Loks. I can send a few your way.

 

[Having fun now]

Late update. Talked to harvester staff member. He sent the yellow Saints for boat tail and also the black crush ribs and so 300gr scorpion PT gold bullets. The black crush ribs with scorpions and 100 gr BH 209 are bad medicine. Load snug but don't have to use extreme force to load it even on second shot. Got a 1" group at 100 yds.

 

[CGhost]

Late update. Talked to harvester staff member. He sent the yellow Saints for boat tail and also the black crush ribs and so 300gr scorpion PT gold bullets. The black crush ribs with scorpions and 100 gr BH 209 are bad medicine. Load snug but don't have to use extreme force to load it even on second shot. Got a 1" group at 100 yds.

Good grouping may have to check into those for my Optima...

 

[ETipp]

Late update. Talked to harvester staff member. He sent the yellow Saints for boat tail and also the black crush ribs and so 300gr scorpion PT gold bullets. The black crush ribs with scorpions and 100 gr BH 209 are bad medicine. Load snug but don't have to use extreme force to load it even on second shot. Got a 1" group at 100 yds.

If you are getting a 1" group at 100 yards you are doing good. That's about what I was getting out of my sons V2 but with Hornady 240 grain XTP with green sabots, 100 grains of 777 (V) and with (2) T7 pellets as well.

If we still lived out west and hunted elk, I would opt for a heavier bullet. But for WhiteTail deer here, good nuff.