CVA Optima V2 misfire

[Landerwalk]

New guy here. This year is a first for me in the muzzleloading world. Looking for some advice on an issue I’m having, the fix is probably simple but it’s got me stumped. Here’s the situation

New CVA Optima v2 with northwest conversion kit for musket caps(required here)

Caps are brand new RWS brand

December cow elk hunt in Idaho, cold conditions (sub Zero up to mid 20s)

Powerbelt 348 gr lead hollow points

777 FFG 100 grains

Have had 2 misfires in 2 weeks on shots at elk now. I am unable to replicate these misfires at home. Gun works flawlessly when I’m not on the mountain

Both times my procedure has been to clean and dry the gun and breach plug, And follow up with lubing the bore with traditions bore lube.

Then popping off two caps to ensure the flame channel is good and dry and clear. Visually confirming it’s clear.

Then loading the gun and taping the end of the barrel with a piece of electrical tape when I head up the mountain.

The cap has popped both times, but there is either little or no ignition of powder in those cases I have had a misfire.

Tips tricks advice and otherwise I am all ears. Thanks

 

[illinoishunter]

Do you load a warm gun, powder and primer then take it out in the cold? Do you bring it back into a warm building from being in the cold? Otherwise you may need to look into a hotter primer due to the cold steel taking away too much heat.

Fyi this group hates powerbelts. And how tight does that projectile when cold load in a cold barrel? If it isn't snug it maybe loosening up on the hunt especially with the bore lube.

 

[ElDiablo]

I’d start by ditching the bore lube. (I’d also ditch the Powerbelts.) If you have access to real black powder, you can try a small (5 gr) igniter charge of real black under your main charge of 777 (and reduce your main charge by 5 gr). I’ll bet that would make a big difference in really cold conditions.

 

[BigBoresmokepole]

New guy here. This year is a first for me in the muzzleloading world. Looking for some advice on an issue I’m having, the fix is probably simple but it’s got me stumped. Here’s the situation

New CVA Optima v2 with northwest conversion kit for musket caps(required here)

Caps are brand new RWS brand

December cow elk hunt in Idaho, cold conditions (sub Zero up to mid 20s)

Powerbelt 348 gr lead hollow points

777 FFG 100 grains

Have had 2 misfires in 2 weeks on shots at elk now. I am unable to replicate these misfires at home. Gun works flawlessly when I’m not on the mountain

Both times my procedure has been to clean and dry the gun and breach plug, And follow up with lubing the bore with traditions bore lube.

Then popping off two caps to ensure the flame channel is good and dry and clear. Visually confirming it’s clear.

Then loading the gun and taping the end of the barrel with a piece of electrical tape when I head up the mountain.

The cap has popped both times, but there is either little or no ignition of powder in those cases I have had a misfire.

Tips tricks advice and otherwise I am all ears. Thanks

Get rid of the bore lube show us pitchures of the caps that's misfires. Are the caps loose on the nipple. Grt close up picture of nipple and post it here so we can see if something wrong.

 

[Landerwalk]

Do you load a warm gun, powder and primer then take it out in the cold? Do you bring it back into a warm building from being in the cold? Otherwise you may need to look into a hotter primer due to the cold steel taking away too much heat.

Fyi this group hates powerbelts. And how tight does that projectile when cold load in a cold barrel? If it isn't snug it maybe loosening up on the hunt especially with the bore lube.

What are some recommendations in place of power belt? I had a coworker recommend them but if they’re causing problems potentially or might be a problem down the road I’m ears to other options. I’ll try some adjustments to where I load, and if that doesn’t help maybe I’ll look for some hotter musket caps. Thanks for the advice

 

[Landerwalk]

Get rid of the bore lube show us pitchures of the caps that's misfires. Are the caps loose on the nipple. Grt close up picture of nipple and post it here so we can see if something wrong.

I’ll lose the bore lube. As for the spent caps they’re long gone. They fit snug and I will send a pic of the nipple soon as I can

 

[deermanok]

Hornady 240 grain XTP's with the supplied green sabots. Good muzzleloader bullets, imo.

 

[Landerwalk]

Hornady 240 grain XTP's with the supplied green sabots. Good muzzleloader bullets, imo.

I’m in Idaho. Required all lead projectile no copper and no sabots allowed

 

[illinoishunter]

Look at these for a projectile.

https://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I’m in Idaho. Required all lead projectile no copper and no sabots allowed

I agree with everyone else about ditching the bore lube. I think thats the main cause of the misfires. Combined with altitude/colder temps maybe. I would tell you that those lead powerbelts are fine, better maybe if you back down the powder a little bit. 348grains of lead is a good heart stopper. I never push plain lead past 80-90 grains volume of bh200 so imo t7 would use a similar load amount. But accuracy being more important, stick with whats working.

 

[deermanok]

I’m in Idaho. Required all lead projectile no copper and no sabots allowed

In that case, I would recommend trying some Thompson Center Maxi Hunters, 275 grains. I've killed a bunch of deer with them

 

[Landerwalk]

I’d start by ditching the bore lube. (I’d also ditch the Powerbelts.) If you have access to real black powder, you can try a small (5 gr) igniter charge of real black under your main charge of 777 (and reduce your main charge by 5 gr). I’ll bet that would make a big difference in really cold conditions

I agree with everyone else about ditching the bore lube. I think thats the main cause of the misfires. Combined with altitude/colder temps maybe. I would tell you that those lead powerbelts are fine, better maybe if you back down the powder a little bit. 348grains of lead is a good heart stopper. I never push plain lead past 80-90 grains volume of bh200 so imo t7 would use a similar load amount. But accuracy being more important, stick with whats working.

Awesome. Good to see consistent advice. I’ll definitely forget the bore lube. And might turn the powder charge down too just for fun and see how it goes.

 

[ElDiablo]

If you’re in the middle of your season, I wouldn’t change bullets. But…..for next season, there are lots of much better full-bore lead choices for elk - like the No Excuses 460 gr, 495 gr, and 600 gr or some of the heavy Bull Shop conicals. Those Powerbelts are just too soft and light to be ideal for elk IMO.

 

[Shorty]

After cleaning the barrel, wipe the insides clean with an alcohol based cleaner. It will not rust this way and there is no butter to run down in to breech plug when rifle is in upright position. Check the breech plug out and make sure it is clean and the flash hole is of specified size. Wipe down with an alcohol based cleaner also. Leave no oils that can contaminate the muzzy cap. After you do this and are sure that the gun is completely free of oils, load the gun, except cap as usual and place outside in the cold as you would when hunting. In the morning cap the gun and shoot a target to replicate ur hunting scenario and see if you have a misfire. Thats what i would do to try to figure out your situation…also how old is your triple seven?

 

[Rvrrat14]

Caps go off; lube barrel, there it is. You could pour out some powder and make sure it ignites.

Bore Dirver FTX 290gr is what I shoot in my Optima V2. I use 209 primers with 2 White Hots. Hunted in damp/rain last week and shot a yote.

I put Barricade by Birchwood Casey on a single patch after all cleaning. I shoot right over it. It dries to a film. I leave rifle in the stand, locked up, with poncho liner draped over it; muzzle up.

On the Powerbelt thing, I watched a video recently of a young lady taking a CVA Wolfe to Kodiak Island. She took a Brown Bear. Average shots on Centerfire are three, she took three including the first round/hit at approx. 80-100 yards. I’d say the stalk was not too long, as the bear was laying up on each followup shot. Interesting was the fact that when she started her dad was with her and then had to leave. He stated he had reloaded the rifles several times during the day due to the heavy rains, making sure he had dry powder/caps. I’m sure you want the rifle to go bang in bear country!

 

[Dwayne]

Contrary to others...
1. There is nothing wrong with Bore Butter. IT will NOT run down and clog anything.
2. There is nothing wrong with PowerBelts....Been using them since they came out.

What does it take to make that gun fire???
1. A primary ignition.
2. A Secondary ignition.
3. A Clear path between #1 and #2
4. Powder that is dry.

You have shown us that at home, you have no problem at all firing and using the
gun. You have told us that you cannot duplicate the problem at home. That tells
us that you are doing Everything correct at home to make that thing fire. Thus,
it has nothing to do with Bore Butter (which is extremely THICK and difficult to
spread when cold. Your Cap is firing ok....Your powder seems to be ok. But you
are in a warmer environment. Your gun is not being "Exposed" in the cold elements
as you carry while hunting.

I would look at one thing particular.....
The Channel between your primary and secondary ignition.
You are not getting your primary charge to your secondary charge.
Chances are, it is because of a plugged up nipple. A plugged bolster barrel,
a plugged up channel between your primary and secondary charge.

Firing one or two caps BEFORE you go hunt is a big no no. That does one
thing...causes residue to be placed in the firing channel and starts the process
of rust. When you clean that fire chamber, it is at the OPTIMUM point.
I am not saying it will not work if you do a couple of cap cleans, but you are
introducing burnt powder in a clean system. So why do it?
1. Your nipple is thoroughly cleaned.
2. Your Bolster barrel is optimally clean.
3. You are clean for the fire to go from your cap to your secondary charge.

If the above is all true...Then one thing that stands out ....Your powder.
Since you are not using BlackHorn 209, we can rule out a lot of things.

Real Gun Powder ignites at a temp about 450F. Gun Powder Substitute
ignites around 750F. This includes Pyrodex brands....777, etc. When the
temp gets cold, your cap will not have the Poof to ignite the powder as easy.

I suggest getting a hotter cap, and getting some REAL Gun Powder and putting
a base of about 10g. That way the REAL gun powder will ignite fast in the cold
weather and subsequently will ignite your 777 much easier.

You may find out that just a hotter cap will solve your problem.
You may find out that using a 10g base of REAL gunpowder will solve your problem.
You may also find out that it will take both of the above to make it work in cold weather.

 

[Landerwalk]

Contrary to others...
1. There is nothing wrong with Bore Butter. IT will NOT run down and clog anything.
2. There is nothing wrong with PowerBelts....Been using them since they came out.

What does it take to make that gun fire???
1. A primary ignition.
2. A Secondary ignition.
3. A Clear path between #1 and #2
4. Powder that is dry.

You have shown us that at home, you have no problem at all firing and using the
gun. You have told us that you cannot duplicate the problem at home. That tells
us that you are doing Everything correct at home to make that thing fire. Thus,
it has nothing to do with Bore Butter (which is extremely THICK and difficult to
spread when cold. Your Cap is firing ok....Your powder seems to be ok. But you
are in a warmer environment. Your gun is not being "Exposed" in the cold elements
as you carry while hunting.

I would look at one thing particular.....
The Channel between your primary and secondary ignition.
You are not getting your primary charge to your secondary charge.
Chances are, it is because of a plugged up nipple. A plugged bolster barrel,
a plugged up channel between your primary and secondary charge.

Firing one or two caps BEFORE you go hunt is a big no no. That does one
thing...causes residue to be placed in the firing channel and starts the process
of rust. When you clean that fire chamber, it is at the OPTIMUM point.
I am not saying it will not work if you do a couple of cap cleans, but you are
introducing burnt powder in a clean system. So why do it?
1. Your nipple is thoroughly cleaned.
2. Your Bolster barrel is optimally clean.
3. You are clean for the fire to go from your cap to your secondary charge.

If the above is all true...Then one thing that stands out ....Your powder.
Since you are not using BlackHorn 209, we can rule out a lot of things.

Real Gun Powder ignites at a temp about 450F. Gun Powder Substitute
ignites around 750F. This includes Pyrodex brands....777, etc. When the
temp gets cold, your cap will not have the Poof to ignite the powder as easy.

I suggest getting a hotter cap, and getting some REAL Gun Powder and putting
a base of about 10g. That way the REAL gun powder will ignite fast in the cold
weather and subsequently will ignite your 777 much easier.

You may find out that just a hotter cap will solve your problem.
You may find out that using a 10g base of REAL gunpowder will solve your problem.
You may also find out that it will take both of the above to make it work in cold weather.

What would you suggest for a “hotter” cap? I have read elsewhere that these RWS 1081s are not a very “hot” cap. I am all for the 10 grain base of real powder. I’ve been recommended that by individuals both on this forum and in my community here at home.

 

[Dwayne]

What would you suggest for a “hotter” cap? I have read elsewhere that these RWS 1081s are not a very “hot” cap. I am all for the 10 grain base of real powder. I’ve been recommended that by individuals both on this forum and in my community here at home.

I do not recommend anything when it comes to in-lines.... I sold my Savage 10ml 2 many years ago on this forum, and that
was the last inline / percussion I had except for my Faeton underhammer. I am a solid rock scratcher and have never looked
back. Thus, whatever the guys here recommend, I say go for it. My knowledge on the different caps is what I considered
ZERO. It is out of my area, and I am not going to suggest something, when I have been out of that league for decades. I
also do not "Parrot" what I read on the internet, unless I have experience with it personally.

All of these inliners, percussion, and flintlocks work the exact same way. Primary charge, channel for fire to go through, secondary charge.
1. Primary being your cap, 209 primer, or your flash pan.
2. Channel between Primary charge and secondary charge.
a. To big of a channel and you get blowby and possibility of inconsistency in accuracy.
b. To small of a channel and your secondary charge will be harder to light.
3. Secondary charge, being what you stuff down the barrel and place your projectile on.

If any of these 3 are weak, then you may/will have problems.

Like I said before....If I were you, and had to make a decision, I would do one of the three things.
1. Hotter Cap.
2. 10g of REAL gun Powder as a base.
3. Both #1 and #2.

Personally #3 should really take away all doubts. If it doesn,t and you have misfires,
then it is your channel between your two charges, or something to do with your
secondary charge.

 

[bronko220002]

Another thing to do beyond what was said is whenever you clean your rifle store with muzzle down for a couple days so residual oil flows out.
Also keep the rifle in your vehicle. Bringing it in the warm house causes condensation which is contaminating the powder close to the breech/cap.

 

[brad502a]

Double down on the "how old is the T7, might want to try 3F. Also contrary to one opinion powerbelts are a failure waiting to happen. One of the no excuses bullets over a felt wad will do the trick without worry.