well cecil epp has a keith nose conical that is 550 grains in 54cal (it was a 650grain but was a pain to make) and it hits deer like anything i gave seen with 100 grains of 777 ,29 kills between 5 guys, i would like the same massive energy dump with associated shock from a load in my savage i am looking for complete pass thru on double lung shots and yet if needed break both shoulders and in that case it does not have to exit i want this performance on whitetails and hogs(within reason 300lbs and under) thats why all the questions i would love to hear from everyone on this board on what game,bullet, shot placement, and load and yardage game was taken maybe we can all learn from this!!!!!!!!!!!