Apex

[Underclocked]

that's nice, Swampman. I'm glad you so freely share that faith. It means a lot to me.

 

[SwampFox]

You all know how i feel about CVA gun's.
When ever i hear anything about a Accura are the Apex as being a good gun.All that comes in my mind is the fact they are just a CVA gun.If BPI wanted to make better guns than the old CVA guns ,then why in the world did they even want to part of any of CVAs guns and ways, in name are in history of anything as far as that goes.
Lets face it.The old saying is right.
IF YOU LAID DOWN WITH DOGS,YOU GET UP WITH FLEES
Sorry but i'll stay away from any gun that has CVA on it.
YEA the past cause it ,but i have been burnt to bad for way to long
CVA to me means only one thing to me,CHEAP made guns.
After all, they are just a CVA.
Sorry guys thats the way i feel
But CVA cause it

 

[Anonymous]

So how do you feel now that Smith and Wesson owns Thompson Center?? 8)

I've known and have personally spoken with UC for a few years now. Nobody was more critical of CVA than Rich was back then,,,,and for good reasons. If he says the rifle is worthy of another look,,,then I believe him. He isn't getting paid squat for his evaluations,,,he's just a picky bastich like most of us,,and is willing to share his opinion. I trust his opinion. And folks need to sit back and take a deep breath. This new CVA just might be a good one. 8)

Swampman,,,,you'd ***** if someone gave you a new rope to hang yourself with. 8) :wink:

 

[lane]

Millions upon millions were spent to build the factory where the Accura, Apex and Bergara barrels are built using some of the most modern methods available. The barrels have the blessing of not only Ed Shilen but of Mike Bellm - who has had nothing to do with CVA to my knowledge. Of course, neither of those guys know much about rifle barrels.

This IS CVA's come back. They have listened to the negative feedback, and stepped up to the plate with these new and greatly improved products. IMO they have matched the quality and safety of "Made In USA"

And if UC decided to give me one of the New Apex Rifles, I would say..."Thank You Very Much!!!! 8)

 

[Underclocked]

Happy New Year!

 

[Underclocked]

Lane, you're a great guy and all... but don't hold your breath. :wink:

Would I have to buy a ticket to win the lottery or can I just tell them I had those numbers? 8)

 

[Swampman]

that's nice, Swampman. I'm glad you so freely share that faith. It means a lot to me.

 

[SteveB]

Swampman,,,,you'd ***** if someone gave you a new rope to hang yourself with

.

The knot would be tried wrong too!

Steve

 

[SwampFox]

Batchchief 909. Smith & Wesson as far as them now owning TC.I will say this, Smith & Wesson has alot better REP than CVA has ever had are ever will have as far as that goes.
Now i like UC alot and i trust his word very much.But even the Best Doctors in the world can make a bad call sometimes.Not saying UC has made a bad call,but no ones words will ever change my mind on a CVA Gun.I have wasted EVERY dime i have ever spent on buying CVA junk over the years and no ones track record such as there have with me will ever be change via some ones words.
Like i said i respect UC alot but no not even his words will make me feel are think any diffrent about CVAs gun.
Like i said before CVA cause me to be this way about them

So how do you feel now that Smith and Wesson owns Thompson Center?? 8)

I've known and have personally spoken with UC for a few years now. Nobody was more critical of CVA than Rich was back then,,,,and for good reasons. If he says the rifle is worthy of another look,,,then I believe him. He isn't getting paid squat for his evaluations,,,he's just a picky bastich like most of us,,and is willing to share his opinion. I trust his opinion. And folks need to sit back and take a deep breath. This new CVA just might be a good one. 8)

Swampman,,,,you'd ***** if someone gave you a new rope to hang yourself with. 8) :wink:

 

[sabotloader]

Chief

I've known and have personally spoken with UC for a few years now. Nobody was more critical of CVA than Rich was back then,,,,and for good reasons. If he says the rifle is worthy of another look,,,then I believe him. He isn't getting paid squat for his evaluations,,,he's just a picky bastich like most of us,,and is willing to share his opinion. I trust his opinion. And folks need to sit back and take a deep breath. This new CVA just might be a good one.

See you and I know this... as well as a lot of other people. My complaint is not the quality or even the price - it remains the restrictions that make abolutely no mathematical sense and are very limiting to most.

And I agree with Lane - if someone sent me one I certainly would not turn it down. But I would not buy one at this point - I have no need.

 

[Underclocked]

Mike, did you get my email from last night?

 

[Anonymous]

I know what you're saying, SL. They may re-evaluate their restrictions before it's all said and done.

Ever purchase a firearm with the lousy "lawyer trigger"?? That doesn't keep me from purchasing a good rifle, as well as others. 8)

And Swampfox I also understand your feelings, trust me. I won't purchase anything that has any ties to Smith and Wesson either. :wink:

 

[MLKeith]

I have sent multiple emails to the customer service people about this subject and they just keep saying that there is no reason to shoot load exceeding 100gr. loose powder. I have tried to impress them that the limitations make their rifles appear inferior especially to the new purchaser market but they seem to be solid on their opinion. If I was involved with BPI I think I would be working to make the recommendations equal to the competition. Maybe if enough of the people that are interested send additional emails they might just wake up.

Busta

Has anyone seen if CVA is going to budge off the 100 gr loose powder charge or the 400 gr max bullet charge with these new rifles? This APEX obviously has a steel frame to handle the center fire breech thrust of a .300 Win Mag. You would think these new muzzleloader barrels could handle a 120 gr charge of loose powder if they can recommend a 150 gr pellet charge. I know you can draw your own conclusion, but it would be nice if they had the ballz to put it in print. What is CVA's amximum loose powder recommendation for the new Bergara barreled .45's?

I really do not think they are going to move from these restrictions in the near future. The same restrictions apply if you purchase a Bergara barrel and drop it on you Encore.

As long as they maintain these restrictions and try to compete in the open market with any other modern ML they are hurting themselves. Plus their past history makes works against them also. I am sure their products today are of decent quality but combine the restrictions and past history there will always be some ghosts haunting BPI/CVA.

 

[Underclocked]

CVA is aware of these concerns and quite possibly aware of this thread.

Changing those load recommendations will neither improve nor decrease the quality of the rifles involved, but some might find assurance in revised numbers.

 

[saxman1]

The one thing I don't care for on these newer CVA rifles is the spring steel clip-on ramrod thimbles (guides). I'm sure they are perfectly servicable, but detract from the overall esthetic quality of the new breed of CVA's. I see they are offering it in a .45 cal, wonder if Bergara would offer a faster twist than 1:28 down the road for the Hot-Rodders?

Has anyone seen if CVA is going to budge off the 100 gr loose powder charge or the 400 gr max bullet charge with these new rifles? This APEX obviously has a steel frame to handle the center fire breech thrust of a .300 Win Mag. You would think these new muzzleloader barrels could handle a 120 gr charge of loose powder if they can recommend a 150 gr pellet charge. I know you can draw your own conclusion, but it would be nice if they had the ballz to put it in print. What is CVA's amximum loose powder recommendation for the new Bergara barreled .45's?

Asthetically, I think they are there. With some good thimbles, quick removable breech, and a higher max loose powder charge recommendation, I think they would have the perfect rifle. It also appears that there will be no open sight option, since the DuraSight? Z-2 AlloyTM rail mount is included.

This is an apples to apples comparison, as close as it can get for these three rifles. I know there is the Encore Pro-Hunter and Endeaver with more bells and whistles, but you are also talking $300 to $400 more per rifle.

MSRP $576.95 (should be about $100 less than MSRP from the right dealer)

MSRP $589.99 ($479.76 at R&R)

MSRP $730 to $750? (T/C does not list MSRP) ($626.08 at R&R)

http://www.cva.com./rifles-apexml.html

http://www.knightrifles.com/catalog.asp ... zleloaders

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/encoreMuzzleloaders.php

Thanks for posting these pic's together.

I have big hands and what I like about the encore stock is the deep pistol grip in the stock,it keeps my thumb from hitting my nose,that's why I like thumbhole stocks but TC decided to make thumbholes in Right Handed only
At least CVA made their's Ambidexterious.

I love my Encore but the new CVA looks great.
It would take allot to get me to switch

 

[sabotloader]

UC

I did... bout fell out of the chair several times while viewing it - and it has been remailed to several qualified viewers....

Changing those load recommendations will neither improve nor decrease the quality of the rifles involved

100% totally agree....

But it still would be hard to sell and Edsel today - just because of the name even if were produced by Honda. It is going to take several dozen qualified and trusted souls like yourself to turn thier fortunes.

but some might find assurance in revised numbers.

I think some would find great comfort in that adjustment. Not very many people like restrictions - restrictions they would not have if they were to purchase another product - almost any other product. If the restrictions are made for a reson - then tell us the reason... but to say 100 grains is all you need is not the way to handle the problem when you allow 150 grains in pellet form - I hate pellets. Their stance on 100 grains of loose makes no sense also - since 100 grains of some powders is so weak and a 100 grains of another is so strong.

 

[Underclocked]

"bout fell out of the chair several times while viewing it"

I hope that was only a result of excessive laughter. ?

 

[oldelkhunter]

Boy am I glad I didn't buy the Accura. UC again is a detriment to ones wallet. :cry: But I thank him for actually buying and using these firearms and giving a complete and unbiased review.

 

[sabotloader]

UC

twas and an excessive mass around the belly...

 

[Underclocked]

"Boy am I glad I didn't buy the Accura."

Is that because you are now waiting for the Apex?