54 Renegade Accuracy potential

[rost495]

Sorry, I put this under the new to MZ column and got no nibbles. I see a bunch of folks relating their renegades here. So I was in the wrong area. Duh.

Anyway-- can I get a 4 inch 200 yard group out of my 54 Renegade with conicals like the REAL?

Or what can I expect actually?

Thanks, Jeff

 

[cayuga]

200 yards with R.E.A.L. conicals might be a little ruff to get that kind of group. I know I could never do it. But then I shoot open sights and do not trust myself that well past 100 yards to shoot. I have shot targets out to 125 yards with the Renegade and though I was doing really good.

If I wanted to shoot 200 yards with my Renegade, I would be shooting my Stainless Steel .50 caliber with 1-28 twist.

I guess a lot will depend on how good a shot you are, your skills, and willingness to practice. I personally do not think the R.E.A.L.s have that. I would go with a 385 grain Great Plains Conical with a sub base under it possibly.

 

[Anonymous]

What would I expect.....4 inches at 100 yards.....maybe 3".

 

[rost495]

3-4 inches at 100??? You guys are kidding me right?? I'd expect to get to 2 inches or less pretty easy.

IF this is not the case, where is the missing link? Quality of the projectile, quality of powder, quality of barrel etc....??

Or is the hangup on the sights? IE you could do 4 inches(ok I could be happy with 6 maybe at 200) at 200 with a scope but not irons?

I'm really not trolling here, I"m really interested.

Thanks, Jeff

 

[cayuga]

All I am saying is with my eye sight, open sights, and my rifles, I am happy when I have a 4" group at 100 yards. With my one rifle and a peep sight, I have on ocassion done better but those were few and far between.

You then have to take into consideration, the ballistics of the traditional rifle. With roundball there is a real energy loss after 100 yards. In fact those that go by data tables of energy, etc. would not even consider a roundball a hunting projectile after 100 yards.

Conicals might hold much better. A lot will depend on whether the rifle likes conicals or not. Of the four .54 caliber Renegades I have, one hates any conical I have tried to make it shoot, yet with a roundball the rifle is deadly.

I guess the accuracy of every rifle is dependant on a lot of different factors. Change or alter any one factor and the whole thing changes.

 

[n8dawg6]

my renegade turns in about 2" groups at 50 yds with the factory sights. it would probably do better with a scope. but honestly, those sights are not designed to do any better than that. they're rather large, and crude. effective, but not precise. i've spent a lot of time trying to line them up perfectly each time when benchrest shooting, and then i realized, what's the point? it shoots perfectly well for the range limitations of the projectiles it shoots. listen to cayuga, he speaks the truth.

 

[rost495]

Think I got it now.

I can't stand trying to shoot with the issue sights. They are horrible and the fire kind are worse. They are the first thing that flew off my Encore.

I'll have peep sight rear and merit disc in it for light adjustment(very critical in front sight clarity) and I'll remill the steel front sight into the correct reverse tapered post.

Without these tune ups I can imagine that better than a couple inches at 100 is tough.

BTW ya speak of energy. How many large animals died from 70 grains of FF and a 400 or so grain conical? And not all at close range. That old 45-70 was good to 200 yards easy and still is. Some of our current MZs equal or beat those ballistics(not with round balls though)

Thanks, Jeff

 

[cayuga]

Without a doubt.. the old rifles shooting the large conicals with a minor powder charge killed lots of large game.

Most hunters and shooter do not have the skills to make such shots. I say this after watching some on the ranges. Even those that have scopes on their rifles. They should never take a shot over 100 yards. I watched a fellow with a scope manage to hit a paper plate at 100 yards. He seemed proud telling everyone, "Well that should do it."

I just purchased an inline rifle that is meant to shoot conicals only. It is a White .504 caliber and they are known for their conical throwing ability. So far the rifle has proven its point. I would think shooting anything with a 460 grain conical bullet would get the job done.

 

[rost495]

Yeah, I hear ya. I'm embarrassed if when I have a tough time hitting a paper plate with my 4 inch Smith 329 in 44mag with irons.....
Jeff

 

[cayuga]

I've watched people on the target range shoot their rifles and then examine the group. Some of them, the groups they shoot.. I would not take the rifle into the woods, yet they are satisfied.

Like you and others, I am a bit of a fanatic. I want that rifle tuned to the best possible group it can shoot and then I base the distance I will shoot at any animal on the ability of myself with that rifle..

Of course there are hunters out there that do not care. They feel if they can throw a chunk of lead into the animal, there is a chance that it will kill the thing. And that is good enough for them. I can't count how many times people have asked me to help track a wounded deer for them. I also kind of laugh when I ask them, where did you hit it, and they tell me right behind the front shoulder. I then comment well then this will not take long, it should be real close. Then two miles later we find a gut shot or liver shot deer and they remark.. hit further back then I thought. All that means to me is that person had no idea where he was shooting at.

 

[rost495]

Glad to see folks here with ethics!!

I'm very picky about longer shots. I'll take them if I can get a solid rest and the conditions are right. Lighting, wind etc.. and I'm 110% confident. Others just wail away.

 

[Auton]

54 Renagade

I used 100 grain of RS Select with the Hornady Great Plains 425gr with excellent success on Black Bear.....years ago!

 

[cayuga]

I was hunting bear with 80 grains of Goex 2f and a patched roundball with my .54 caliber Renegade one year. I never got the chance at the bear I wanted but would have no concerns taking the shot had it presented it self.

I also shot a lot of deer with R.E.A.L. conicals. My Renegade likes the 300 grain in .54 caliber. A friend with a T/C Hawkins shoots the same thing also.

The longest shot my rifle made on game, was when I loaned it to another person for muzzleloader season. He had a deer come in at just over 100 yards. Having little experience with a black powder rifle, he figured the ball would drop a great deal so he aimed at the spine and touched it off. BOOM! The deer with the broken back never took a step.

I once made the mistake of taking my eyes off a deer at 80 yards to put my binoculars away in my coat pocket. I had determined the deer was more then shoot-able. I pulled up, took a bead, and touched it off, killing the deer and a second one that had walked up behind the first one that I never saw. The roundball went through #1 and hit the backbone of #2 breaking it's back. I had to finish it off with a knife, but still, that is the kind of power these traditional rifles have.

Good luck with your Renegade.. They are a great rifle. I even have a number of barrels you can change out to make the rifle do more things.