Using the Accu-Shot or Mag Spark alternative nipple to shoot Blackhorn 209

[Ka'imiloa]

Thank you Ka'imiloa. I'll have to keep an eye out for an Accu Shot. Always good to have options.

Just tried my very old Accu-Shot today and since it had corroded a bit inside and was impossible at first to unscrew the "cap" top portion, I very lightly dressed the threads that the cap screws onto as well as the threads of the nipple base that screw in to the rifle. Just shooting a small rifle primer, alone, would move the "cap" about 3/4 turn on the threads, and I can only imagine what a moderate dose of Blackhorn 209 would do!
However, there was very little thread movement with shooting the small rifle primer and using a thin rubber "O-ring" at base of cap when screwing in on snugly like before. This nipple replacement will only work when there is good centering of the nipple alignment in the cup of the hammer. It is probably not going to work in my InvestArms "Siles" .54 whose hammer cup will barely clear a typical #11 cap -- unless I modify the hammer cup alignment.
Of note: since the Pedersoli hammer is very well aligned with the nipple, I was able to install a TRESO 1/4-28 thread musket nipple, and using the "brimless" and thin-walled RWS musket caps, that rifle fires them off just fine. I read years ago that a musket cap has the same brisance (firing power) as a shotgun 209 primer, so this should work for BH 209 even if the Mag-Spark nipple I ordered does not get here in time for my wife's elk hunt.
The difference is: much less hassle using the RWS musket caps, but then the breech is not sealed, so to speak, and some sort of sleeve or wax needs to be around the base edge of the cap to seal it from moisture. The Mag-Spark will be slower to set up but should provide a largely weatherproof system.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[smokepolehall]

My exp. the Accra-shot & i do have one. It will use either small rifle or pistol primers. Its decent to use but i have always had to use my knife blade to get the used ones removed. I have the Mag-spark uses 209 primers, its better in my opinion. I use Win. & CCI, i like it better than the Accura-shot. I use it on my Renegade .54, also my Under-Hammer

 

[ElDiablo]

I read years ago that a musket cap has the same brisance (firing power) as a shotgun 209 primer, so this should work for BH 209

Assuming this the below info is broadly representative, they may not be far off in temperature but the 209 likely has quite a bit more flame volume. Perhaps the RWS caps are different. Will they work? Probably depends also on the flash hole and other flame path specifics. Let us know!

The following data was published in
Muzzle Blasts, Ralph Lermayer, "Madison Avenue, Congress, and Controversial Ballistics," May 1998, page 42.

CCI Primer And Percussion Cap Chart

• #200 Lg Rifle . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 11.68
• #250 Lg Rifle Mag . . . Flame Temperature F° 3717 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 11.97
• #209 . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 21.98
• #10 . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 6.53
• #11 . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 6.53
• #11 Mag . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 7.59
• Musket Cap . . . Flame Temperature F° 3717 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 14.36

 

[retrieverman]

I use a Mag Spark on my sidelocks, and the primers do get stuck occasionally. It’s not troublesome enough for me to stop using it though.

 

[Ka'imiloa]

Assuming this the below info is broadly representative, they may not be far off in temperature but the 209 likely has quite a bit more flame volume. Perhaps the RWS caps are different. Will they work? Probably depends also on the flash hole and other flame path specifics. Let us know!

The following data was published in
Muzzle Blasts, Ralph Lermayer, "Madison Avenue, Congress, and Controversial Ballistics," May 1998, page 42.

CCI Primer And Percussion Cap Chart

• #200 Lg Rifle . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 11.68
• #250 Lg Rifle Mag . . . Flame Temperature F° 3717 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 11.97
• #209 . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 21.98
• #10 . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 6.53
• #11 . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 6.53
• #11 Mag . . . Flame Temperature F° 3024 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 7.59
• Musket Cap . . . Flame Temperature F° 3717 . . . Gas Volume (cc) 14.36

Great info, ElDiablo, and much thanks for posting it. I now wonder just what "brisance" refers to in ragard to primers and caps: is it flame temp, gas vol. or some combination of both?

Meanwhile, Update: Tried shooting the Pedersoli .45 target-oriented ML rifle using the Treso 1/4-28 musket nipple with RWS musket caps and 95 gr. volume of Blackhorn 209. First shot sounded good, using snug-fitting 475 gr lead bullet over a .463 card, but struck low at 100 yds suggestion velocity was reduced compared to 95 gr. vol. of Swiss 1.5F that worked well recently with same bullet and card.

Dry patch down the barrel after the single BH shot and there was little fouling, as usual.

But next shot with BH was a distinct bang-boom revealing a hang-fire and thus the musket cap and or the bullet being moved by same before it could obturate thus failed to provide the circumstances to allow BH to provide instant and good pressure. That shot did not even hit the 20 X 28" target backing!

Moral of the story: musket cap will light off BH209 as expected, but with bore sized bullet providing no "bore tension" to allow the BH to properly burn, this scenario does not work. Now to try the Mag-Spark, but I suspect the lack of "bore tension" due to muzzle-loaded bullet, even a heavy one, simply does not allow BH to properly ignite.

Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[Harley469]

In case you missed it ,again I will tell you just place the primer in your mouth /spit in the cap NO STICKING EVER!! I compete with one weekly 50-60 shots , been doing it for 13-14 yrs , regular CCI 209 s/Ed

So, spit in the cap of the Magspark and it won't get stuck. I have been using Federal 209A primers-I assume your spit method will work for that primer?

 

[eekjellander]

So, spit in the cap of the Magspark and it won't get stuck. I have been using Federal 209A primers-I assume your spit method will work for that primer?

I can only verify CCI/Federal /Winchester (what I have ) but yes most likely anything you can fit in a Mag Spark should work .It's nice you have a weather proof /sealed very hot /light anything you have for powder especially when primers of any kind are scarce!!! Ed