....UP DATE ON AMERICAN PIONEER POWDER........

[hawgslayer]

I was having a problem with getting my powerbelt bullet seated for the second shot because of the burn ring. I was using PYRODEX and Remington STS primers. A friend of mine gave me some AMERICAN PIONEER POWDER FFG in premeasured tubes of 50 gr. I also went with Remington Black Powder KLEANBORE PRIMES and really enjoyed shooting today. No burn ring and I was able to shoot off 3 rounds without any problem reloading. I stopped shooting after 3 rounds. I should have kept shooting just to see how many rounds I could of gotten off. I figured that you may not get more then 2 or 3 shots off while hunting. I finished up the day grouping in a 3" circle at 50 yards. I'm really happy with my accura and highly recomend it :!: :!: :!:

Hawgslayer

 

[cayuga]

I was shooting a Knight Wolverine with APP 3f powder and 240 grain XTP's I was able to shoot as many as I wanted without swabbing the barrel. APP is a good clean powder. Did you notice a white powder forming near the muzzle of the barrel?

 

[frontier gander]

what grain powerbelt are you shooting? Normally with open sights i'll get between 2 to 2 1/2" group with 100gr pyrodex rs (i get the crud ring too) and the 245gr Aerotip.

 

[hawgslayer]

f/g

I'm shooting the 295 gr hollow point. Burn ring was so bad I couldn't get that second PB down without allot of muscle :!: :!: :!:
I'm sticking with this AMERICAN PIONEER POWDER and these REMINGTON Black Powder Kleanbore Primers. No more burn ring and 1/3 cleaning time but allot of fun shooting :!: :!: :!: :idea: I'm going to stop at BPS today and buy the loose powder and powder measure and refill these tubes and reuse them. They are great at the range and also for hunting. I hope :!: :?: :!: :?:

Hawgslayer.

 

[OptimaAndy]

how much velocity do you loose going from something like RS or T7 to APP.

 

[Lee 9]

I LOST ABOUT 250fps when I used it for a couple years, I just put in more powder as it took more to get the best accuracy.
My biggest problem was storage, you really need to store it in a dehumidified gun safe or some place like that. When it sucks up a bit of humidity the groups will triple in size.
I was really happy when they came out with non hydroscopic Blackhorn 209; NO crud ring, shot all morning with out wiping and for me it shoots about half the size groups I had to live with before. It requires a little bit different set up for best results and it is not cheap, but I worry more about getting what I pay for than I do about cheap. Lee

 

[Mark whiz]

+1 to Lee 9

American Pioneer, Shockey's Gold, Clean Shot or whatever you want to call it is extremely hygroscopic.....i.e. it sucks water out of the air faster than a vampire sucks blood. :shock:

It is also underpowered quite a bit compared to other powders.
Here are comparable loads in my rifle (Knight USAK)using a 300gr sabot:
80gr 2fg 777
95gr Pryo RS
115gr 2fg American Pioneer, etc

All that said, American Pioneer is amazingly clean to shoot. I've shot over 20 rounds without any kind of cleaning patch and the barrel was no more fouled than it would have been after a single shot.

It's just a trade-off on what quality is most important to you. Personally, after having a can of it go bad on me literally overnight - I've switched to 777 for the duration.

 

[SWThomas]

Or you could just shoot BH209 and have no crud ring, easy cleaning, plenty of power, and shoot as much as you want without swabbing. But there is that high price.... :shock:

On a different note... If you're going to use a hygroscopic powder like APP, why not keep it in a zip-lock bag when you're not using it? That would keep the moisture away from it. :idea:

 

[Okie Hog]

IMO APP, JSG and Pinnacle are not overly hygroscopic. Been using one or the other of those powders for many years and have never had a big problem. I do put a small dessicant pack in the can when it is opened.


Fired some JSG last week that has been opened for nearly two years. Fired five three shot groups at 100 meters. My smallest three shot group group measured just over 1.25"; the largest was just over 1.75".

 

[flint head]

I've used the Sticks in the past with very good results... never had any sort of problems, matter of fact I left my Pro-Hunter loaded for over a month hunting hard and it went bang when it was supposed to... and killed a deer in the process! :wink:

 

[richdeerht]

One other advantage of APP is it's easy to ignite. Works with #11 caps or musket caps, or 209 primers. BH209 won't ignite reliably in some 209 guns. That's why there's still a place for APP or 777. But, APP does degrade from humidity.

 

[rwc1969]

Pretty new at this, but...

I use the Shockey's gold APP in my Accura w' the Kleenbores and was getting 5 shots without swabbing. 1" accuracy at about 50 yards resting on a tree. open sights.

At the range I was taking 10+ shots but swabbing twice after each shot. Didn't notice any real difference between 1 and 10.

I stored it in a ziploc so we'll see if it absorbs water in there. I hope not!

 

[Cajun]

Your "burn ring" was probably produced by the STS primer you were using instead of a muzzleloading primer.

 

[Banerbird]

Your "burn ring" was probably produced by the STS primer you were using instead of a muzzleloading primer.

In a small way, I wish the ML primers would fix it for me. I can only get 2-3 shots (with the 2nd and 3rd being more difficult the last half inch) before I can not seat the bullet at all. (FYI... I get sub 1" groups WITH swabbing clean and 2-3" groups WITHOUT @100 yds.. which is more than sufficient if the 2nd shot is needed) I've used numerous different brands of primers STD and ML with the same results. I tried BH powder and loved not having the crud ring, but I decided to stay with 777 for my own reasons.

Personally, though, I can live with the burn/crud ring. When in the field, I don't take any more than 2 shots at any one time (and even 2 shots is rare). If I needed to, then I'd better go back to the range. It doesn't take more than an additional minute to swab the barrel anyway. Plus, if what you're shooting at goes down, then there's plenty of time to swab.

I can defanitely see where people don't want the crud ring, but for my hunting applications, I can live with the crud ring.

 

[Spitpatch]

Banner, I'm with you...

I like BH 209, but I really don't mind the ring because I spit patch between EVERY shot anyway.....that's just me...Spitpatch :lol:

In my 50 cal. 777 ffg is more accurate anyway.
Now the 45??? well that's a different story...

 

[hawgslayer]

Try APP GOLD along with the Remington shotgun KLEANBORE primers and you wont get the burn ring. I shot 10 rounds last weekend and never removed my breech plug. Didn't spit swab until the fourth shot. After that I spit swabbed every shot. Use to use PYRODEX PELLETS and REMINGTON STS PRIMERS. Burn ring after everyshot. Couldn't get second powerbelt seated. Now I have no problem and enjoy shooting my CVA more with allot less cleaning time.

IMHO :!: :!: :!:

 

[Lee 9]

I have come to believe where you live or actually the normal humidity where you live makes a difference. I live on the down wind side of Greers Fairy lake [44,000 acres ] and I had to handle APP with a great deal of care or an open can would absorb enough moisture to shoot all over the paper while a fresh can would group well. I also believe that the high humidity here may have a lot to do with the crud ring.
Just for reference the humidity here is usually over 80%. One of the reasons I am inclined to have this opinion is while I was visiting a sister inlaw in AZ we went out to shoot a bit and I did not get crud ring.
Lee

 

[OptimaAndy]

here in maine we get pretty high humnidity but Shockey uses the stuff in africa and it always seems to go boom. I think I am gonna pick up a can when i get the blackmag and give it a try.

 

[hawgslayer]

O/A, if you try it out let us know what you think :!: :!: :!: :!: