Response from Doug Phair @ Western Powders

[Rangeball]

It looks like the flash channel is larger on the plug Ron sent than the stock CVA plug, will have to check with the drill bits they use for cleaning to be sure. Hopefully Ron will see this and let us know.

 

[sabotloader]

smyers717 Rangeball

Shoot maybe he is then - i thought in my discussions with him he suggested he was staying with the stock channel and saw no need for the larger channel.... of course with my reading skills - may not be what he said at all.

I cut the channel to .159 (a #21 Wire bit) or just slightly larger than 5/32nds....

 

[Anonymous]

On my modified CVA plug from Ron with vent liner I can get a 5/32 bit in the flash channel. On 2 of his Grade 8 plugs with powder pocket like the Omega plug the flash channel is 1/8. They are all bigger flash channels then stock CVA plugs. They all go BANG with BH209 and work great with T7 also.

 

[sabotloader]

smyers717

On 2 of his Grade 8 plugs with powder pocket like the Omega plug the flash channel is 1/8.

That is probably exactly what I read... as I was asking if he had opened them to .159.

The 1/8" that TC and Knight currently use is certainly (IMO) a step up from 3mm, but i would venture to say that you will see both manufactures moving to .159 in the near future.

 

[Urban_Redneck]

Ok guys got an email back.

Jonathan:

We are working on this now, with the help of Blackhorn. We have to test several different designs.


Thanks for the info.

Best regards,
Dudley McGarity

From the Acurra Manual PDF:

..BLACKPOWDER SUBSTITUTES- Safer and cleaner-burning
substitutes for blackpowder have been developed and these are perfectly
suitable for your CVA muzzleloader. Some of the popular brands are
Hodgdon Powder Company?s Pyrodex?, Triple Seven? and White
Hots?, American Pioneer Powder?, and BlackHorn 209?. Some of
these are available in both granular and pelletized form. An important
thing to remember is that individual rifles will perform differently with
the same powder and bullet combinations. Each of the blackpowder
substitutes have their own characteristics and CVA recommends that
5
you try several powder and bullet combinations to see which one gives
you the performance you are looking for. New blackpowder substitutes
may be introduced after this manual is written.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Myself, i have not spent much time formulating some sort of a theory about breech plug performance. What i have done is make a CVA breech plug that works with BH. Because, i had/have no theory, i simple copied the Omega breech plug. It has a 0.028"-0.029" flash hole. It has a 1/8" flash channel. It has a powder pocket.

The Omega breech plug works with BH.

Two seasons ago, after i killed 2 deer, i left my Omega out in the truck over night loaded and dirty. That next morning the temperature at the house was somewhere around -15*. I went hunting. When i left the truck with the rifle, the wind was quite brisk, and the thermometer in the truck read -13*. I didn't last so very long, because by necessity i walked into the breeze, and my face started to frost bite. Also, there weren't any fresh tracks to be found, so i went back to the truck. Out of curiosity, before getting into the cab, i pulled the trigger, and the rifle barked.

Last winter, i continued my research, by leaving the Omega, and the Accura in the truck loaded and dirty. We had a couple of cold spells that had me shoot the rifles after they had been in -11* to -17* temperatures over night. Both rifles barked time and time and time again. At that time the plug in the Accura was the OEM modified to include a vent liner, and a powder pocket. The flash channel of the Accura plug was 0.159", and the flash hole was probably 0.032". The flash channel of the Omega plug was 0.125", and the flash hole was probably 0.029". These plug, both worked equally well all last winter.

This winter, thus far we have only experienced temperatures down to 5*. At this time, i am testing the V2 with a vent liner installed in the QRBP, and an Accura with a home made plug, that very nearly is the same as an Omega plug. Both rifles bark, when the trigger is pulled, after they are left loaded and dirty over night in the cab of the truck.

The Accura plug has a flash channel of 1/8", a flash hole of 0.028", and a powder pocket. It has worked over and over at single digit temperatures. When the temperature becomes sub-zero, i suspect it will continue to bark. Time will tell.

The V2 plug has been fitted with a PR vent liner. A powder pocket was created in this modification. The flash channel had been left 3mm, except where it was drilled out with the #21 drill so for to tap 10-32 threads to receive the vent liner. I believe the vent liner has a 0.032" flash hole. This rifle has barked without fail, at single digit temperatures.

Yesterday, i believe i found the break point of flash channel size in the QRBP. After an unknown number of shots more than 26, the primers in the V2 started to stick, Accuracy didn't seem to change, and the rifle continued to bark. After 5 shots on paper, i quit because the primer were sticking, even though i removed them with my fingers. Upon arrival at home, i found the flash channel was closed down, so that the largest drill i could get to slide into the flash channel was 1/16". This means the volume of the flash channel was reduced about 3.5 times before there was an adverse affect. The volume of the flash channel was reduced three and a half times before there was a noticeable adverse affect.

At first glance, it seems the 3mm flash channel of the QRBP could have a volume that is perhaps 3 times larger than necessary for success.

It matters not, the flash channel of this QRBP is now 1/8". When i went to drill out the carbon, i had chucked a 1/8" drill in the drill motor out of habit, and poof, in a flash, the flash channel became 1/8".

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Never had problems like this with T7 or ol' stinky black... its ALL good

 

[Rangeball]

Ron, great post, thanks for taking the time to write it up

 

[rockitdog007]

BH 209

Buy a T/C Omega, they love Blackhorn 209 and it's an AMERICAN MADE GUN. Fine folks @ T/C!

 

[rockitdog007]

BH 209

Love them T/Cs ! Love BH 209 because it loves T/Cs! Love Harvester Bullets 'cause it loves the afformentioned!

Merry Christmas to all! Good shooting and God Bless America!

 

[Moose1]

I just bought a Knight Extreme .Can I use FPJ with BH209 with or without a vent liner modification?
Moose1

 

[sabotloader]

Moose1

if I am reading this correctly - yes

Just clean the flash channel every 8-19 shots and even that may not be necessary....

I, and in my case, think the Knight FPJ actually works better than a Knight NFPJ.

 

[lane]

Moose1

I would also suggest that you ONLY use New Red Plastic Jackets. For range and hunting situations. They will grip the nipple tighter, and give less blo-back fouling with that plug. Just throw them away when done.

I don't re-use any jackets with BH209, cause I only shoot hot loads, and it deforms the jackets on the first shot :shock: 8) :wink:

 

[Moose1]

Thanks for the advise.
Moose1

 

[Moose1]

I'll probably stick with T7 powder.That give me time during the cooling period to swab,and with T7 even after more than 20 shots, I did not have to remove my breechplug to clean it to avoid missfiring.
If you swab between shot you avoid crude rings and your accuracy wont suffer.
moose1