Powder Contamination in Hunting Muzzle-Loaders?

[WP79Vet]

While I've never seen any hard data on the effects of exposing propellants of any kind to petroleum products or other liquids or pastes, I've long been concerned about what happens when muzzle-loading powders are exposed to bullet lubes, fouling solvents, water, rust preventives, liquids used to swab between shots, etc.

For typical range shooting, the duration of contact between such liquids and powder is fairly short, so this is probably less of a concern. However, I have experienced perceptible delays between cap firing and powder detonation (a "snap-bang" sound, if you will), some possible explanations for which were partially clogged flash channels, weak cap detonations, or contamination of powder that was near the flash hole. With two "Northwest Edition" inlines that I've owned (inlines modified to fire exposed caps rather than 209s in order to comply with WA, OR, and ID hunting regulations), complete misfires were very common, and snap-bangs were the rule. I suspect that many of these snap-bangs and misfires were caused by poorly designed NW modifications because both of mine seemed to have incredibly weak hammer strikes, but some could have been caused by contamination. With my Renegade, it's happened only twice - once on the first shot after cleaning when I forgot to clear the flash channel by firing a couple of caps, and once, just yesterday, when I fired the Renegade after it had been loaded for 8 days while I was hunting.

For hunting, powder contamination is a much greater concern because rifles are commonly left charged for weeks to months, and so residual cleaning, lubing, and rust preventive liquids and pastes have a long time to work their way into the powder. Before I loaded up for my latest hunt with the Renegade, I therefore wet-swabbed the bore and powder chamber as thoroughly as possible with Hornady Muzzle-Loading One Shot, which Hornady claims will not affect the performance of powders or caps, dry swabbed with many patches on a very tight jag and then dry swabbed with a jag that has a rounded end in hopes of drying the hemi-spherical powder chamber, and then fired a cap to clear the fire channel. Nevertheless, when I fired the Renegade 8 days after loading, I got a snap-bang rather than the clean single detonation which is typical of this rifle. There was aksi an unusually large amount of powder residue left in the barrel when I swabbed it after firing. So... I'm thinking that powder contamination is the probable cause, and that's a big concern because it will result in slower bullets and loss of accuracy on that critical first shot.

Have you experienced any probable powder contamination issues? What are your procedures for getting your muzzle-loader ready to be loaded for hunting?

Thanks!

 

[ElDiablo]

I have experienced a very slight delay in ignition with one of my Whites, not what I’d call a “snap-bang” but more of a “snabang.” Haven’t experimented with it enough to really figure out what is causing the issue but I have solved it by using a 5 gr real black igniter under the 777 charge. Goes off immediately now. I always hunt on a fouled barrel and never put any rust preventatives in my bores (with the occasional exception of one patch of Hornady One Shot if I’m storing the rifle away for months).

I’ve not had any issues in the past 20 years or so with any of my other rifles.

 

[WP79Vet]

"Snabang" is a better description of what I've experienced with the Renegade. I can hear two detonations, just barely separated.

How do you clean your rifles? I've been pumping boiling water in and out of the barrel through the flash channel, using my ramrod with a tight patch as the piston, and then cleaning the flash channel as well as possible with a pipe cleaner and some CLP. That's the procedure IdahoLewis describes. After that, if I run One Shot into the barrel, it comes out completely clean, but if I dampen a patch with Kroil penetrating oil, it still comes out dirty. So... I've been cleaning with the water, then a damp Kroil patch, then scrubbing with dry patches, then removing the residual Kroil with One Shot, and scrubbing dry again. My impression is that the powder chambers of Renegades are pretty rough and difficult to get a patch into, though, so there may be a bit of residual Kroil and One Shot in it after all of the above.

I've been thinking that maybe the best way to remove residual oil before hunting is to fill the powder chamber with alcohol to dissolve the cleaners, allow the alcohol to drain through the flash channel, and then blow some air into the bore and out through the powder chamber and the flash channel to evaporate the residual alcohol. Any thoughts?

 

[eekjellander]

"Snabang" is a better description of what I've experienced with the Renegade. I can hear two detonations, just barely separated.

How do you clean your rifles? I've been pumping boiling water in and out of the barrel through the flash channel, using my ramrod with a tight patch as the piston, and then cleaning the flash channel as well as possible with a pipe cleaner and some CLP. That's the procedure IdahoLewis describes. After that, if I run One Shot into the barrel, it comes out completely clean, but if I dampen a patch with Kroil penetrating oil, it still comes out dirty. So... I've been cleaning with the water, then a damp Kroil patch, then scrubbing with dry patches, then removing the residual Kroil with One Shot, and scrubbing dry again. My impression is that the powder chambers of Renegades are pretty rough and difficult to get a patch into, though, so there may be a bit of residual Kroil and One Shot in it after all of the above.

I've been thinking that maybe the best way to remove residual oil before hunting is to fill the powder chamber with alcohol to dissolve the cleaners, allow the alcohol to drain through the flash channel, and then blow some air into the bore and out through the powder chamber and the flash channel to evaporate the residual alcohol. Any thoughts?

Stop with the boiling water ,tepid cool water does the job with out promoting (flash rust ) think back in the day I'd bet grog/beer/whisky recycled was used . You can bet the ranch , boiling water was a coffee thing ! Rubbing alcohol is used for wiping /removing oil/powder residue and dry's almost instantly /Ed

 

[Old No7]

Stop with the boiling water, tepid cool water does the job with out promoting (flash rust )...

+1 to that.

Rubbing alcohol is used for wiping /removing oil/powder residue and dry's almost instantly.

I used those little sealed 1"x1" alcohol wipes that nurses use when they wipe you arm before a flu shot -- very handy to have (the wipes -- not the shot!).

Old No7

 

[GUN NUT]

I am most likely doing things different but when hunting I swab with a dry patch then put about 10 grains of powder in the gun and pop a cap to ignite the powder and clean out any leftover contaminants has worked for me for over 30 years

 

[Ole Creek Boy]

I used to have a terrible time with my Renegade doing the snap bang. I was using Pyrodex rs with musket caps and it got to the point that I had nearly zero confidence in it firing. I bought a T/C Thunderhawk and it went bang everytime with the same powder and caps. After 8 years with the Thunderhawk I picked up a T/C Hawken in 45 cal and went with Goex 3f and musket caps and it is as consistent as it can be. I have came to the conclusion that the side locks prefer the real bp over the others. I will hunt with my Renegade next year with the real bp and I have confidence it will go bang. I use no mineral oil based cleaners in my sidelocks and am having no issues at this time. I have had my 45 loaded for 5 weeks and hopefully will hunt with it again before deer season closes in January.

 

[WP79Vet]

I used to have a terrible time with my Renegade doing the snap bang. I was using Pyrodex rs with musket caps and it got to the point that I had nearly zero confidence in it firing. I bought a T/C Thunderhawk and it went bang everytime with the same powder and caps. After 8 years with the Thunderhawk I picked up a T/C Hawken in 45 cal and went with Goex 3f and musket caps and it is as consistent as it can be. I have came to the conclusion that the side locks prefer the real bp over the others. I will hunt with my Renegade next year with the real bp and I have confidence it will go bang. I use no mineral oil based cleaners in my sidelocks and am having no issues at this time. I have had my 45 loaded for 5 weeks and hopefully will hunt with it again before deer season closes in January.

Thanks for posting your experience. Please let us know how your hawken does when you finally fire it.

 

[ElDiablo]

You didn’t say, but are you making certain when you load to tilt and tap so that some of the powder settles into the flash channel?

 

[WP79Vet]

You didn’t say, but are you making certain when you load to tilt and tap so that some of the powder settles into the flash channel?

Thanks Diablo. Tilt and tap is something I should be doing, but haven't been.

 

[ElDiablo]

Thanks Diablo. Tilt and tap is something I should be doing, but haven't been.

Always made a big difference for me when I was shooting sidelocka a lot back in the day.

 

[Fyrstyk]

When I prepare my side lock .58 for deer season, I run a patch dampened with alcohol down the bore to remove any residual barrel preservative. I then put on a .32 caliber jag with a alcohol dampened patch down the bore to the patent breech chamber to clean and dry it. I put my 3f black powder in, a dry wool wad then my patched/lubed round ball. I remove the nipple, and using my 1gr flint lock pan primer put in one push of 4f powder, or if using my flint lock, one push of the 4 f primer into the touch hole. Give the off side of the lock a good smart rap to settle the powder.
Using this method, I have never had a delay in ignition with either cap lock or flint lock. I also store my loaded rifle in my un-heated garage when not hunting to prevent condensation from bringing a cold gun into a warm room. I suspect that is the major culprit of many hang or mis-fires.
My gun remains loaded throughout the season if I am not fortunate enough to tag out. I cover the muzzle with a party balloon when hunting to prevent debris/moisture from going down the bore, and put a foam ear plug over the nipple or against the touch hole when storing the gun until the next hunting outing.

 

[WP79Vet]

When I prepare my side lock .58 for deer season, I run a patch dampened with alcohol down the bore to remove any residual barrel preservative. I then put on a .32 caliber jag with a alcohol dampened patch down the bore to the patent breech chamber to clean and dry it. I put my 3f black powder in, a dry wool wad then my patched/lubed round ball. I remove the nipple, and using my 1gr flint lock pan primer put in one push of 4f powder, or if using my flint lock, one push of the 4 f primer into the touch hole. Give the off side of the lock a good smart rap to settle the powder.
Using this method, I have never had a delay in ignition with either cap lock or flint lock. I also store my loaded rifle in my un-heated garage when not hunting to prevent condensation from bringing a cold gun into a warm room. I suspect that is the major culprit of many hang or mis-fires.
My gun remains loaded throughout the season if I am not fortunate enough to tag out. I cover the muzzle with a party balloon when hunting to prevent debris/moisture from going down the bore, and put a foam ear plug over the nipple or against the touch hole when storing the gun until the next hunting outing.

I like the idea of using alcohol to get rid of the solvents, lubricants, and rust preventives that might contaminate powder that's gonna be left in the rifle for weeks to months. To me, that's a better alternative than firing the rifle to clear contaminants and leaving it fouled for long periods of time. Powder residue of all kinds is both corrosive and hygroscopic, so leaving a rifle fouled seems to be inviting barrel rust and pitting.

One concern is that the first shot out of a completely clean barrel may go to a different place than subsequent shots out of a fouled barrel. I will need to test this.

 

[Fyrstyk]

I like the idea of using alcohol to get rid of the solvents, lubricants, and rust preventives that might contaminate powder that's gonna be left in the rifle for weeks to months. To me, that's a better alternative than firing the rifle to clear contaminants and leaving it fouled for long periods of time. Powder residue of all kinds is both corrosive and hygroscopic, so leaving a rifle fouled seems to be inviting barrel rust and pitting.

One concern is that the first shot out of a completely clean barrel may go to a different place than subsequent shots out of a fouled barrel. I will need to test this.

I have sighted in my percussion .58 such that the first shot out of the clean barrel is 1" high @ fifty yards. Subsequent shots out of the fouled bore tend to shoot somewhat higher (1.5-2") @ 50 yards. My .58 flint lock shoots to the same point of aim whether a clean or fouled bore.

 

[WP79Vet]

I have sighted in my percussion .58 such that the first shot out of the clean barrel is 1" high @ fifty yards. Subsequent shots out of the fouled bore tend to shoot somewhat higher (1.5-2") @ 50 yards. My .58 flint lock shoots to the same point of aim whether a clean or fouled bore.

Good to know. I'll have to do some testing - differences in point of impact as well as differences in muzzle velocity.

 

[sabotloader]

You didn’t say, but are you making certain when you load to tilt and tap so that some of the powder settles into the flash channel?

I believe that this single simple direction truly important. And it should solve a lot of these type problems.

I would add when you drop the powder in drop a few grain (5 to 10) or there about tilt and tap the left side of the breech area to help powder work its way out of the barrel into and under the nipple.

 

[Ole Creek Boy]

I finally shot my 45 cal TC Hawken that I loaded the first week of November. I hunted with the gun and stored it in my safe when not in use. I fired it today for cleaning and it went bang immediately, no lag time. I used Goex 2f, (not 3f like I reported earlier), RWS musket caps and TC Bore Butter as the maxi hunter bullet lube with no wad. The sitting with the bullet on the powder did not appear to have any negatives with it firing. This is my experience and I see no need to change how I do things.

 

[anonymouscowherd]

Ive had fail to fires from bad caps and not quite seated caps almost every range session with both my rifle and revolver

Once though on the rifle a second hammer strike or fresh cap didnt do the trick. Pulled nipple and added powder in the drum and it went but slow and was a weak shot. The good part is that it was after 56 rounds over a month long period with no cleaning, not a likely scenario when hunting

 

[Hatchet Jack]

I use Swiss 2F in all my sidelocks. I clean up using MAP. Storing gun away I will use Rem Oil.
Prior to loading for a hunt, I will wipe bore clean followed by shooting off (six) number 11 caps in order to burn off any oils in the flame channel. Load my powder and tap the flame channel area with the heal of my hand to make sure the powder gets settled in there. I will use a ''dry'' wool wad over my powder for hunting. Once loaded, I put tape over the muzzle to keep moisture and debris out.
I will leave the gun loaded the whole season or until I shoot a deer. When taking gun from vehicle into house or garage. I will keep gun in an insulated case to prevent condensation.
After shooting my sidelocks, I will try to get them cleaned up within 24 hours.

 

[rangerod]

You didn’t say, but are you making certain when you load to tilt and tap so that some of the powder settles into the flash channel?

Thanks ElDiablo. Never thought about it. Might've been my problem in the past.