Last 45 cal sub base test

[dlethcoe]

CVA Kodiak 45 cal
scope Bushnell DOA
Bullets and powder
Hornady 452/250 gr Monoflex saboless, 105 gr of BH209.
Lehigh 451/250 gr XP'S sabotless, 110gr of BH 209.
Primers winchester 209W
Made it to the range to try out the sabot bases again, but added the MMP tan base to the plan.

1st up was the monoflex with the felt wad 105 gr of BH 209, 1st shot was out of a cold clean barrel, high and right, then 2,3,4,

2nd group was the Sabot bases with the Monoflex ,1st and 2nd shots were with the blue sabots, Now with the tan sabots, Aimed right of center and same out come. touching. Seems like when shooting the sabot bases, they are pushed upward with more velocity from the sabot bases sealing the gases and catching the rifling from the barrel, Adjusted the scope down (yes I did adjust it this time) shot <a href='/tags/3' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #3'>#3</a> tan sabot base,and <a href='/tags/4' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #4'>#4</a> was with a blue base.

Now was the XP'S, 110 gr of powder tan sabot, wanted to try shooting the same target that I had shot with the Monoflex bullets and see if my adjustments made a difference on them as it did with the monoflex. Aimed at the 2nd square, and was left of center (Above picture), just above 1 & 2 with the blue sabots from the monoflex.. So far I was very happy with the way things were going. So I decided to go out to the 200 yard set up. Shot <a href='/tags/1' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #1'>#1</a> was real easy going down the barrel, the knurl was not as tight as what I had been feeling on the other bullets, it showed on the target.
Shots 1,2, & 5 were with the blue sabots, 3 & 4 were with the tan sabot bases.On the XP'S I did not use the felt wad with them,

I was able to find a couple each of the sabot bases, you can see how they flared out to the rifling.

Dave

 

[Al-53]

great shooting and test report as always..I feel we are on right track so far with the bases...its just fime tuning...200 yards looks nice so far...

 

[cvilorio1]

Like always great shooting Dave, and the test shows that you can use the sabots with out the petal as sub bases, and they work just as good. The 200 yrd target looks great. Again great shooting and test. OH, one more thing. Save your energy you are going to need it. :twisted: :twisted: 
CArlos

 

[GregK1]

Great report & shooting buddy! We're down to about foot foot & a half of snow! Hoping I can get to the range by May or June, lol, so you're gonna have to do all the work til then!

Greg

 

[Al-53]

Your lucky with only a foot and a half....there is over 3 feet at my range now and now another storm hitting tonight dumping any where from 12-18 inches...they were going to use a bobcat to clear paths to the target boards but was icy under the snow and no traction...so going to get tire chains to try that...or it will be July till we can shoot..lol...

 

[dlethcoe]

My testing might be put on hold after today, I just received a phone call from the club, wondering if I saw somebody that got stuck, I guess that there was 3 vehicles that had to be pulled out, because they went where they were not to be. So will see what happens.


Dave

 

[GregK1]

My testing might be put on hold after today, I just received a phone call from the club, wondering if I saw somebody that got stuck, I guess that there was 3 vehicles that had to be pulled out, because they went where they were not to be. So will see what happens.


Dave

Don't you just love stupid people?!!!

 

[dlethcoe]

I was going to put the Kodiak away and do some testing with one of the MR'S, now that will be on hold.


Dave

 

[SCHUNTER1]

Might be an elusion but it appears the tan sub base expanded better into the rifling than the blue. The shots marked 3 & 4 at 200 yards with the tan sub base are perfect.  Great shooting Dave!

Scott

 

[dlethcoe]

Might be an elusion but it appears the tan sub base expanded better into the rifling than the blue. The shots marked 3 & 4 at 200 yards with the tan sub base are perfect.  Great shooting Dave!

Scott

Scott, you are right, the cup is deeper on the MMP tan sabot, than on the Harvester blue sabot, here is another pic of the sabots, this will give you a better idea, you can see how they caught the rifling better between the two of them.

Dave

 

[SCHUNTER1]

Most of the SML guys seem to like the harvester light blue better than the MMP light tan. I think the results show that the Harvester light blue is made from a harder formulation and that could be why they hold up better in the SML. Thanks for the testing.

 

[Underclocked]

Well Dave I tried to add to the data you have been collecting but it didn't work out well. I created some light blue sub bases and was using 110 grains of BH209 with a Barnes 250 TMZ with W209 primers in my Apex 45-70 conversion. Had the Chrony setup at 15 feet. First shot with a lubed felt wad went 2073fps, next I tried the plastic sub base and recorded 2082fps. Here is where it went south, next three shots failed to register a speed. I was alternating between felt and plastic and I believe the bases were coming through messing up the reading. I found 1 portion of felt wad in my Chrony upon disassembly. 
I will try again but might need to bring an extension to place the Chrony further out as the petals no longer grab air and slow it down. I was also waiting 5 minutes between shots.  I will also have some XP's next time to try as well.

 

[dlethcoe]

biddler2, 
When I did the tests I was doing groups of 3 felt wads, then switched to 3 sabots.
When looking for the bases, I found the sabot bases between 30 and 36 yards away from the shooting station. The wads were 15 to 20 yards away. Hope this helps you.
Good luck, and thanks

Dave

 

[Underclocked]

That is good info, others were also using the range that day because the weather was awesome. It was 70 degrees with little wind. I didn't want to disturb the others to mess with the Chrony.  I was switching back and forth to reduce any variable with heat. The barrel wasn't hot and we were in the shade so I don't think it had much effect.

 

[patocazador]

"First shot with a lubed felt wad went 2073fps, next I tried the plastic sub base and recorded 2082fps. Here is where it went south, next three shots failed to register a speed. I was alternating between felt and plastic and I believe the bases were coming through messing up the reading. I found 1 portion of felt wad in my Chrony upon disassembly."

Biddler, I was trying to get velocities of my Ruger Old Army pistol. I used lubed wads over the powder and got crazy readings on my Chrony. Some were 950 fps, some were 620 fps, and some were 1180 fps.

I decided the wad was registering some of the time rather than the ball. I discontinued using it due to all the errors.

 

[Underclocked]

I haven't had this problem with my smokeless muzzleloader using the felt wads. I will need to try the plastic bases with my smokeless.

 

[exMember]

You guys should go on ebay, theres a fellow there selling new old stock items from the 1980s called Poly patches. They are basically the same thing as a sabot thats been cut flat.

When shooting sabots and wads, they say to back the chrono out to 20-30 yards and let that sabot drop off so it doesn't give false readings.

 

[dlethcoe]

Jonathon,
Thats what suprised me when I was looking for the bases, I was looking in the 15 to 20 yards area where everything else was falling, and couldn't fine them, then I found them out around the 30 to 36 yards out.

Dave

 

[Marty1]

dlethcoe, that is a GREAT range report on the .45 sabotless with smoke! :Red tup:

Since I have two .45 Kodiaks, your report is priceless for me as a starting point.  I've always been able to get good groups using the MMP as sabots in my .45's ...(although I prefer to "prep" (flatten) the bases so that the bullet seats flusher like the blue Harvesters).  Not only is the cup deeper in the MMP's, but it is funneled like a missile exhaust.

Is their a noticeable difference in loading a .451 vs. a .452 bullet in your Kodiak :?:


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p.s.  SCHUNTER is right...I believe the blue Harvesters have a harder formula, which allows them to handle the smokeless powder velocities in the .45.

 

[dlethcoe]

Marty,
With my Kodiak, I was able to get better groups with the Harvester sabots than the MMP sabots When I was shooting the Barnes 195 and the SST 200. But then I started getting into the sabotless shooting, and have not played with them since. So I have a bunch of the 195's laying around.
The loading of the 451 vs the 452, there was not that much of a difference between them, it all depends on how much of a knurl that you have on either bullet. 
I like to have a little extra knurl on the bullet, so you do not need to worry about it coming off the powder when hunting.
About like having a good bullet/sabot combo, nice going down the barrel but not to easy,
But it is something that each person needs to play with and see what there gun likes, 
If you need help PM me.
Thanks

Dave