IS SMOKELESS MUZZLELOADING NOT ALLOWED IN YOUR STATE?

[cayuga]

I believe Wisconsin allows the use of smokeless powder during our muzzlelaoder season. Only non magnification scopes are allowed, peeps are allowed and so are fiber optic sights.

 

[ronlaughlin]

I was just curious about how many states specify that smokeless powder cant be used during their muzzleloading seasons. I figure there are a lot more that do allow than dont. Input is appreciated...

Smokeless is not allowed in South Dakota, but black powder substitutes are allowed, but optics aren't allowed.

 

[Lee 9]

In Arkansas the requirements say at least 18 inches of barrel and 40 caliber and load from the muzzle, electronic ignitions not allowed ;guns that can take a cartridge case [even an empty for the primer] are illegal. Muzzle loading pistols must either use a conical bullet or be 54cal. for round ball. Lee

 

[rjhans53]

To answer thomas it's in the reqs but for some reason not in the handbook. http://skinnymoose.com/stabley/2007/11/ ... le-season/. Also whoever stated that hogdon considers 209 smokless, are you just being funny or was that statement made by a spokeperson for hodgon, just curious

 

[bluedog]

What about KY

I'm interested in going to Kentucky to hunt deer.....is smokeless legal there......anyone know?

 

[Reese]

Bluedog,

I checked their website and found this 2008 deer guide. If no one responds that hunts in Kentucky, you may want to give them a call to make sure (http://fw.ky.gov/);

http://fw.ky.gov/deerguide08deergen.asp


MUZZLE-LOADING SEASON

Muzzleloaders, archery and crossbow equipment can be used during this season. ALL HUNTERS must comply with the hunter orange clothing law as stated above. Persons ages 15 and under hunting deer with a muzzleloader must be accompanied by an adult who shall remain able and in a position to take immediate control of the youth?s muzzleloader at all times.


MUZZLE-LOADING EQUIPMENT RESTRICTIONS

Legal

Hunters may use the following:

? Muzzle-loading rifles or handguns of any caliber

? Muzzle-loading shotguns no larger than 10-gauge used with slugs only

? A muzzle-loading firearm that can be fired more than once before reloading, as long as it meets the definition of a muzzle-loading firearm (see Definitions section)

? In-line muzzle-loading firearms

? Telescopic sights (scopes)



Illegal

?No modern (breech-loading) firearms of any kind are permitted.

 

[big6x6]

Re: What about KY

I'm interested in going to Kentucky to hunt deer.....is smokeless legal there......anyone know?

Absolutely!....as it is here is Alabama..

 

[SWThomas]

Here's Florida's stance...

October 4, 2007
Contacts: Capt. John Miller or Capt. Rob Beaton (850) 922-9022

Note: The original news release of Oct. 2 has been modified (added text is in bold) to provide clarification.

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) wants to make it clear to all muzzleloader hunters ? not all muzzleloaders are created equal. Some of the new models do not meet the legal definition of guns authorized for use during muzzleloading gun season.

The two issues which seem to be generating the most questions are whether muzzleloaders with an electronic ignition are legal and whether the use of nitro-cellulose powder is legal. Neither is legal for use in Florida during muzzleloading gun season.

"In particular, the CVA Electra is a new muzzleloader on the market that doesn?t qualify as a state-defined muzzleloader,? said Capt. John Miller of FWC?s Division of Law Enforcement. "It is not a legal weapon for muzzleloader season because it uses an electronic ignition, fired by a battery.?

The legal types of guns for use during the muzzleloading gun season use black powder or a non-nitro-cellulose substitute and are fired by wheel lock, flintlock or percussion cap ignition (including shotgun or 209 type primers). They are not adaptable to use of any self-contained cartridge ammunition.

The CVA Electra muzzleloader is legal to use during general gun season, however.

 

[squirrelhawker]

Also whoever stated that hogdon considers 209 smokless, are you just being funny or was that statement made by a spokeperson for hodgon, just curious

Yes, a tech advisor at Hodgdon told me that. I called to see if they were working on a product to compete with the BH209. (I am a FFL dealer)
The first thing out of his mouth was "you know thats smokeless, right ?"
He also said Hodgdon had several oportunities to market it but chose not to. He said they were not satisfied with test results they had with it. I opened a container of BH209 I recently obtained to test in my NEF and Savage. I must admit the sniff test is like smokeless. You reloaders know what I mean..the solvent smell..

After that call I had western powders fax me a MSDS on BH209.
The main component is Nitrate ester. I did some research on explosives then. My take on this is that nitrate ester is a "general" or "group" term of certain explosives. This type of explosive includes Dynamite, Nitroglycerine, RDX, C4, PETN, Semtex H, Nitrocellulose and smokeless powder.
I think marketing BH209 was a good idea. I have not tested it yet in my guns but from what results some others on this forum have had, I am expecting good results.

The only thing that is a turnoff is the high price. It was intended to fill a niche, in my opinion, of those wanting the performance and non-corrosive..clean burning qualities of smokeless. Being volumn comparable with BP is also a plus for those used to BP powder measures rather than weighed charges.

 

[SWThomas]

Also whoever stated that hogdon considers 209 smokless, are you just being funny or was that statement made by a spokeperson for hodgon, just curious

Yes, a tech advisor at Hodgdon told me that. I called to see if they were working on a product to compete with the BH209. (I am a FFL dealer)
The first thing out of his mouth was "you know thats smokeless, right ?"
He also said Hodgdon had several oportunities to market it but chose not to. He said they were not satisfied with test results they had with it. I opened a container of BH209 I recently obtained to test in my NEF and Savage. I must admit the sniff test is like smokeless. You reloaders know what I mean..the solvent smell..

After that call I had western powders fax me a MSDS on BH209.
The main component is Nitrate ester. I did some research on explosives then. My take on this is that nitrate ester is a "general" or "group" term of certain explosives. This type of explosive includes Dynamite, Nitroglycerine, RDX, C4, PETN, Semtex H, Nitrocellulose and smokeless powder.
I think marketing BH209 was a good idea. I have not tested it yet in my guns but from what results some others on this forum have had, I am expecting good results.

The only thing that is a turnoff is the high price. It was intended to fill a niche, in my opinion, of those wanting the performance and non-corrosive..clean burning qualities of smokeless. Being volumn comparable with BP is also a plus for those used to BP powder measures rather than weighed charges.

That's some great research! A lot of people don't know what an MSDS is. I'm fortunate enough to work around them every day. The military requires we have them for even shredder oil.

So based on your research you found that BH209 shares an ingredient with "Nitrocellulose and smokeless powder"? That ingredient being Nitrate Ester. That doesn't mean it has Nitocellulose in it or that it's a smokeless powder does it?

 

[sabotloader]

squirrelhawker

I believe it is smokeless (BH) in fact it is a smokeless progressive burning powder - just open a jug and take a smell, and I also believe the DOT considers it a smokeless - but then again so is T7, it is smokeless and it is white @ production - the color and smoke are added for our benefit, but it is not a smokeless progressive buring powder. It has the same ignition characterestics of real black powder and again it is considered a smokeless by the DOT.

And as I have said in the past it is the real deal...great powder, but to expensive for me. I shoot loose T7 and for me I shoot a lot of it, in faact as i siad in another post - I opened bottles #7 and #8 Monday of this week. Bottle #1 was opened in December of 2008... + a pound of T7 powder @ $20 is greater than 10 ozs at $30. Plus I can run downtown and buy it. It (t7) has its distractions but it works for me + I can closely achieve the velocities and accuracy of BH even with the 300 grain bullets.

 

[squirrelhawker]

The two issues which seem to be generating the most questions are whether muzzleloaders with an electronic ignition are legal and whether the use of nitro-cellulose powder is legal. Neither is legal for use in Florida during muzzleloading gun season.

"In particular, the CVA Electra is a new muzzleloader on the market that doesn?t qualify as a state-defined muzzleloader,? said Capt. John Miller of FWC?s Division of Law Enforcement. "It is not a legal weapon for muzzleloader season because it uses an electronic ignition, fired by a battery.?

The legal types of guns for use during the muzzleloading gun season use black powder or a non-nitro-cellulose substitute and are fired by wheel lock, flintlock or percussion cap ignition (including shotgun or 209 type primers). They are not adaptable to use of any self-contained cartridge ammunition.

The CVA Electra muzzleloader is legal to use during general gun season, however.

To allow 209's but not nitro based powder seems crazy, to me.

 

[squirrelhawker]

squirrelhawker

I believe it is smokeless (BH) in fact it is a smokeless progressive burning powder - just open a jug and take a smell, and I also believe the DOT considers it a smokeless - but then again so is T7, it is smokeless and it is white @ production - the color and smoke are added for our benefit, but it is not a smokeless progressive buring powder. It has the same ignition characterestics of real black powder and again it is considered a smokeless by the DOT.

And as I have said in the past it is the real deal...great powder, but to expensive for me. I shoot loose T7 and for me I shoot a lot of it, in faact as i siad in another post - I opened bottles #7 and #8 Monday of this week. Bottle #1 was opened in December of 2008... + a pound of T7 powder @ $20 is greater than 10 ozs at $30. Plus I can run downtown and buy it. It (t7) has its distractions but it works for me + I can closely achieve the velocities and accuracy of BH even with the 300 grain bullets.

I may be wrong but I think they would do better in the long run if they sold a POUND in the $25 range. I spend a lot of money on this hobby and yet still dont like to be gouged (sp?) by anybody.

And for you guys there PM'ing back and forth saying " I wish those a$$e$ would quit talking about this BH being smokeless, my state is gunna catch wind of this and shut it down".......it doesnt matter, you best believe Hodgdon is on the case. There are dollars to be had. Hope BH has a GOOD loophole worked out. :lol: BTW, when I asked the guy for the MSDS on the BH, I think I heard his sphincter tighten up two full notches.

 

[rjhans53]

Squirrel you may be right but I really don't see where BH is hurting 777 that much, I had the local gun shop order a couple of jugs and I left one set on the shelf for 2 months before my stock was getting low, no one picked it up so I bought it and I don't know that she'll order any more. 90% of hunters (maybe more) are get a jug of powder 2 weeks before season, go bang, yep that's good enough and head to the woods (same is true with CF hunters). Most of these guys are I kilt a deer with this stuff last year so I'll use it again. Now even if it gets outlawed,
1 How in the heck are they ever going to enforce it (it's black and by volume)
2 BH would still be legal during the firearms season in places like IN and Ohio so is it really worth the law suit, that's for someone with more knowledge than I have to decide.
3 IT's NOT CHEAP AT ALL and right now most people are

 

[squirrelhawker]

Squirrel you may be right but I really don't see where BH is hurting 777 that much, I had the local gun shop order a couple of jugs and I left one set on the shelf for 2 months before my stock was getting low, no one picked it up so I bought it and I don't know that she'll order any more. 90% of hunters (maybe more) are get a jug of powder 2 weeks before season, go bang, yep that's good enough and head to the woods (same is true with CF hunters). Most of these guys are I kilt a deer with this stuff last year so I'll use it again. Now even if it gets outlawed,
1 How in the heck are they ever going to enforce it (it's black and by volume)
2 BH would still be legal during the firearms season in places like IN and Ohio so is it really worth the law suit, that's for someone with more knowledge than I have to decide.
3 IT's NOT CHEAP AT ALL and right now most people are

All good observations on your part. I personally think it is stupid for a state to not allow nitro based powders. Like you said, enforcement would be just about impossible anyway. Ohio dnr, usually conservative on issues concerning firearms +hunting dont even make a mention of type of propellant allowed . I'll bet some states that specify no nitro-based are taking a "dont ask- dont tell" attitude on it. Maybe allowing BH in those will let smokeless "get a foot in the door". I thought I heard somewhere there are 15-20 states that specify no smokless (nitro).

I think too if they (western) drop their price on BH they will do a lot better in the long run..imo.

 

[Lee 9]

Believe it or not its the fact that it is marketed as a black powder substitute by volume that makes it legal . It has to do with the way the original laws were written. Lee

 

[squirrelhawker]

Believe it or not its the fact that it is marketed as a black powder substitute by volume that makes it legal . It has to do with the way the original laws were written. Lee

Is that just speaking for your state, I guess? Someone said their state was "no nitro based" allowed.

 

[Swampman]

Smokeless is not permitted here in FL. I think it's a stupid law.

 

[doggzoe]

So far smokeless is ok in ILL. But the way they like to change the rules around here who knows for how long.
Don

 

[toytruck]

Smokeless is legal in Virginia in muzzleloaders capable of using it.