IMR3031

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I was wondering about IMR3031 as a load for SMLs. I did a search and I see someone posted they shoot 52 gr of it with a 200 gr Barnes TTSX. Being that 3031 is slower burning than 4198 which is what I use, that load seems pretty weak. Does anyone have any other loads for the Scout .45-70 conversion using IMR3031?
 
I was wondering about IMR3031 as a load for SMLs. I did a search and I see someone posted they shoot 52 gr of it with a 200 gr Barnes TTSX. Being that 3031 is slower burning than 4198 which is what I use, that load seems pretty weak. Does anyone have any other loads for the Scout .45-70 conversion using IMR3031?
That was in a 35 conversion
 
Ive seen nothing for load data with 3031. Only found 2 45/70 loads with 3031.one for trapdoor guns and 250g bullets(under28k psi) and 1 for lever guns and 300g bullets(under 30k psi). Didn't look very promising. Both loads were off of Hodgdons sight.
 
Clem,

Look on/search Doug's Message board under the Savage/Smokeless section for 3031. It basically seems it will work but your talking 80 to 90 + grains of powder and typically for bullets in excess of 300 grains. In the Scout conversion, I believe Hankins uses a.035 bushing so traces T4 and T5 might be more appropriate though not much difference, T1 means he had to hammer the bullet down to the powder colum, it was very tight. There's a post by TGinPA on this trace amongst the many I've read today. Basically everyone says not a very good choice but usable, as it's mostly for longer barrels. Some duplex it with VV110. Similar to Varget. I did almost buy some 3031 from Brownells but with 4lbs ofVV120 and some 110 and 130 I decided against it.

Below is one portion of a thread on 3031 that I read.

Turns out a 275gn bullet over 78gn of 4198 isn't the wonder load. It's like a super fast shoebox.

H4198 works well for 300gn and under but is a fast powder that delivers high pressures. When you get to 325gn bullets you need to move to H322 or slower.

IMR 3031 works well for 300gn and heavier bullets, delivering higher velocities and lower pressure. The trade is a little more recoil because you will use about 20gn more. It's about the equivalent of shooting a 325gn bullet instead of a 300gn bullet.

John
 
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I have 3031 and I may use it someday for the time being though it remains on the shelf, because of the amount of powder needed for an efficient load ,I personally would rather stay with a powder that gives me something in the 50 to 65 grains of weight rather than 90 plus grains. If I had a full shank target rifle and was looking for that 2,900 plus feet per second load I would probably give 3031 more consideration but that's just not what I'm looking for.
 
Hello, I used IMR 3031 in a 45/70 conversion break action (KP1) a few years ago because I had in on hand and couldn't find 4198. It will work but need about 30% more to get same fps and it is extremely dirty also I believe lock time to be slower because powder column is so tall. I have no way to measure that. Stick with 4198 /4227 / N120!
 
I was wondering about IMR3031 as a load for SMLs. I did a search and I see someone posted they shoot 52 gr of it with a 200 gr Barnes TTSX. Being that 3031 is slower burning than 4198 which is what I use, that load seems pretty weak. Does anyone have any other loads for the Scout .45-70 conversion using IMR3031?

The Lee Reloading manual "Modern Reloading" has a load for the Trap-door and Rolling-block 45-70 rifles that uses that powder for some of the loads. It is on page 672 of the Second Edition.

58.0c of IMR3031 with a 250 grain Barnes X Solid Bullet

59.5c of IMR3031 with a 300 grain Jacketed Bullet

c is for a "compressed" load. The number is grains of powder in weight. (I know most of you guys already know this.)
 
You folks are way ahead of me re smokeless powder loads for ML. But I'm very familiar with "nitro-for-black loads in later 1800s BPE (Black Powder Express) rifles. 15-20 years ago, I read that 3031 can produce pressure excursions that are highly worrisome, and probably that was being said about 45 and 50 cal. loads. I have little doubt that this is why 4198 became the powder of choice for this purpose.
Now we've got more powders, more pressure testing, and more experience. But one crucial item needs to be forever noted: caliber. The smaller the bore, the easier powder builds pressure. So any favorable pressure data applicable to MLs needs to include what caliber was being tested (and exactly which primer).
The other major issue is powder burn-rate. Pounding a bullet down a ML barrel creates way more tension on the bullet than does the bullet neck-tension in a cartridge case. There is way more resistance to getting that tight bullet moving. Smokeless powder may therefore burn very differently and pressure will therefore vary widely, and not likely in a good direction. All the parameters of a given pressure chart need to be considered, and too often all the parameters are not there. Especially for the relatively new smokeless powder MLs. Just the fact that they are almost all 40-50 caliber (to best of my knowledge) makes such loading a whole new ballgame.
I also well remember being told by the Western Powders senior Ballistician to avoid 5744 for nitro-for-black loads in my 45 cal. rifle, even tho it is the broad-use equivalent of Unique, because of possible pressure excursions, and that the best thing to use in my original 45-90 '86 Winchester loading was therefore Blackhorn 209. Perhaps his caveat stemmed from the behavior of 5744 in larger caliber barrels.

Aloha, Ka'imiloa
 
You folks are way ahead of me re smokeless powder loads for ML. But I'm very familiar with "nitro-for-black loads in later 1800s BPE (Black Powder Express) rifles. 15-20 years ago, I read that 3031 can produce pressure excursions that are highly worrisome, and probably that was being said about 45 and 50 cal. loads. I have little doubt that this is why 4198 became the powder of choice for this purpose.
Now we've got more powders, more pressure testing, and more experience. But one crucial item needs to be forever noted: caliber. The smaller the bore, the easier powder builds pressure. So any favorable pressure data applicable to MLs needs to include what caliber was being tested (and exactly which primer).
The other major issue is powder burn-rate. Pounding a bullet down a ML barrel creates way more tension on the bullet than does the bullet neck-tension in a cartridge case. There is way more resistance to getting that tight bullet moving. Smokeless powder may therefore burn very differently and pressure will therefore vary widely, and not likely in a good direction. All the parameters of a given pressure chart need to be considered, and too often all the parameters are not there. Especially for the relatively new smokeless powder MLs. Just the fact that they are almost all 40-50 caliber (to best of my knowledge) makes such loading a whole new ballgame.
I also well remember being told by the Western Powders senior Ballistician to avoid 5744 for nitro-for-black loads in my 45 cal. rifle, even tho it is the broad-use equivalent of Unique, because of possible pressure excursions, and that the best thing to use in my original 45-90 '86 Winchester loading was therefore Blackhorn 209. Perhaps his caveat stemmed from the behavior of 5744 in larger caliber barrels.

Aloha, Ka'imiloa
That is why TGinPAs pressure trace data is so helpful. He tested so many powder and bullet combinations. I bought an 8# of 5744 a few years ago, and haven't even opened it yet, as i haven't got around to loading anything appropriate yet. I think i would try to track down some Trail Boss or Tin Star or similar(maybe aa2015?) before burning up precious bh209 in a cartridge. I did load up some 45 colts with bh and it was great. Too expensive now.
 
Well thanks for the responses but it seems no one has answered my question. I've bee handloading for 55+ years and have loaded smokeless in black powder cartridges (modern girearms) but I'm new to yhe SML deal.
I was asking if anyone has tried 3031 in a SML and results as I have a few pounds on hand for my 30-30 and 375 Win.
 
Well thanks for the responses but it seems no one has answered my question. I've bee handloading for 55+ years and have loaded smokeless in black powder cartridges (modern girearms) but I'm new to yhe SML deal.
I was asking if anyone has tried 3031 in a SML and results as I have a few pounds on hand for my 30-30 and 375 Win.
It has been tried and pressure tested, El Diablo posted it. Its not the best choice but you can use it. If you have alot of it, it won't take you long to use it up in a 45 SML using 90+ grains.
 
It has been tried and pressure tested, El Diablo posted it. Its not the best choice but you can use it. If you have alot of it, it won't take you long to use it up in a 45 SML using 90+ grains.
I’ve used IMR3031 in my .40 SML & it runs fairly even with 4895. Very tall powder columns & the 3031 is on the dirty side, but nuthin like Acc2495 is. That stuff was terribly dirty to where I only got about 6 shots before I couldn’t get another bullet down my bore without a hammer.
 
Bonko,
Go to DOUG'S GREEN BOARD. There is a months reading on Smokeless mz.
I joined there in the early days when I was playing with a Savage MLII
 
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