I have read and been told Swiss BP cannot be compressed in a ML, yet I have also heard Swiss works great compressed in a cartridge.

[drpatton]

I have read and been told Swiss BP cannot be compressed in a ML, yet I have also heard Swiss works great compressed in a cartridge. Is any of this true?

I haven't really compressed any loads, so I can't speak to any of it. I'm wondering if it is a pressure or consistency issue?

 

[smokepolehall]

I it depends on how much pressure is applied loading the bullet. I use a range rod on avg of 40 lbs. I speck it does compress the powder some. I would think it is like the rest of the Blk. powders it can n does get compressed. I think they fill cartridges n compressed so there is not an air space involved

 

[45-70]

It is very hard to compress black powder in a MZ and be consistant , more trouble than good it does. In my long range rifle saw no reason to because it shot well enough without compression. It is done in cartridge to get more powder and seat bullet depth

 

[Confederate rifleman]

That seems odd. I certainly compress my Swiss loads in my muzzleloaders. If I just seat touching powder, groups are inconsistent and poor. A modest amount of pressure on the rammer brings happinesss.

 

[45-70]

That seems odd. I certainly compress my Swiss loads in my muzzleloaders. If I just seat touching powder, groups are inconsistent and poor. A modest amount of pressure on the rammer brings happinesss.

if you want to call that compression, I was thinking other like cartridge rifle
Besides I used a drop tube

 

[drpatton]

It is very hard to compress black powder in a MZ and be consistant , more trouble than good it does. In my long range rifle saw no reason to because it shot well enough without compression. It is done in cartridge to get more powder and seat bullet depth

My intention is to load Swiss 1.5F or 2F for my Sharps 45-70 with a 34" barrel. To do so, the powder has to be compressed.
That said, I thought I read on here, several times, Swiss doesn't like to be compressed. I don't know. I do know, getting consistent compression with my range rod is near impossible, or it appears to be with me..

 

[45-70]

My intention is to load Swiss 1.5F or 2F for my Sharps 45-70 with a 34" barrel. To do so, the powder has to be compressed.
That said, I thought I read on here, several times, Swiss doesn't like to be compressed. I don't know. I do know, getting consistent compression with my range rod is near impossible, or it appears to be with me..

what does your range rod have to do with your 45-70 sharps

 

[drpatton]

Many people treat Swiss like ambrosia; the food for the gods. I have only used Goex BP & Swiss BP (I have Schuetzen 4F for my pan). I want to try Olde Eynsford, which is supposed to be a very good propellant, Someone, somewhere, noted Goex and its sister Olde Eynsford love to be compressed.

I don't know what all of that means. What happens when you compress a powder? Perhaps it crushes some of the grains so they are smaller or maybe less space between granules. Less space less oxygen. Less space may also mean less distance to jump between grains to ignite the BP more evenly.

All I know is, I want to safely try it for accurate loads.

 

[drpatton]

what does your range rod have to do with your 45-70 sharps

I use it to compress the powder in my ML.
As far as my 45-70s, my range rod hates them, because it doesn't get used. It makes for a very unhappy rod.

 

[drpatton]

I own 4 45-70s. My Pedersoli 1874 Sharps, 1886/71 Premium, Marlin 1895 w/22" bbl and a H&R break action.
I want to add to my collection, a Trap Door and a Henry break action, 45-70s.

 

[eekjellander]

I have read and been told Swiss BP cannot be compressed in a ML, yet I have also heard Swiss works great compressed in a cartridge. Is any of this true?

I haven't really compressed any loads, so I can't speak to any of it. I'm wondering if it is a pressure or consistency issue?

You heard right ,compression is relative and I do both /Ed

 

[Confederate rifleman]

What's the difference between compressing the powder under the bullet in a cartridge and under a bullet/ ball or sabot in a muzzleloader? It can be said, if something is under pressure, it's compressed.
Except a fluid.

if you want to call that compression, I was thinking other like cartridge rifle
Besides I used a drop tube

 

[smokepolehall]

Tell you what to try for being constant. Put your butt stock on a scale/bathroom style is good. Then after you do your load just have ramrod n push until your scale shows 40 lbs

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Nice thing about black powder, it supplies its own oxygen. The potassium nitrate generates

Many people treat Swiss like ambrosia; the food for the gods. I have only used Goex BP & Swiss BP (I have Schuetzen 4F for my pan). I want to try Olde Eynsford, which is supposed to be a very good propellant, Someone, somewhere, noted Goex and its sister Olde Eynsford love to be compressed.

I don't know what all of that means. What happens when you compress a powder? Perhaps it crushes some of the grains so they are smaller or maybe less space between granules. Less space less oxygen. Less space may also mean less distance to jump between grains to ignite the BP more evenly.

All I know is, I want to safely try it for accurate loads.

oxygen when ignited.

 

[smokepolehall]

Lets talk black powders for just a short. GOEX had been fairly good through the years. Same Company then made OEF which was a better grade. Now since they were sold n none has been produced we don't know where it stands in the field. Lots of people say Grafs black powder is rebranded Schuetzen, my containers all say Wano. Of which at the time was not as good as GOEX. Swiss at this time is as good of black powder as you can find for sale. I firmly believe none of the others are as good. I will continue to buy it over the others unless something better comes onto the market

 

[X-ring]

I have read and been told Swiss BP cannot be compressed in a ML, yet I have also heard Swiss works great compressed in a cartridge. Is any of this true?

I haven't really compressed any loads, so I can't speak to any of it. I'm wondering if it is a pressure or consistency issue?

"Compression" is a rather vague term. To some people 1/32 of an inch is compressed. To others 1/4 inch is compressed. The internet gurus will say you MUST compress [fill in the blank]. Others say you MUST NOT compress [fill in the blank]. My B.P. ctg. rifles have the bullet seated from just touching the powder column to compressing the powder the depth of a grease groove or driving band depending on the rifle. All but one of my B.P. ctg. rifles use Swiss powder. My muzzleloaders have the bullet seated on the powder with the same amount of force each time. The amount of force is up to you. Just be consistant and don't crush the powder by slamming the ramrod down on the seated bullet. X

 

[eekjellander]

Tell you what to try for being constant. Put your butt stock on a scale/bathroom style is good. Then after you do your load just have ramrod n push until your scale shows 40 lbs

Buy a Lehigh Ram Rod , does the same amount of (PUSH) every time /Ed

 

[stude283]

Ed, Please explain how and why?

 

[brad502a]

You compress powder in a cartridge case and then crimp the bullet and the powder stays compressed. You compress the powder in a ML and the excess pressure will spring back the bullet somewhat. There is nothing holding it there except the bullet to bore fit. My two cents.

 

[drpatton]

Lots of people say Grafs black powder is rebranded Schuetzen, my containers all say Wano.

"Schuetzen Powder Energetics, Inc. is a joint venture between Petro-Explo, Inc. and WANO Schwarzpulver GmbH., of Germany."

Graffs contracts Schuetzen to make powder to their, Graffs, specifications and rebrands it.
I doubt is is the same quality as actual Schuetzen.

I'm sure it was like the old Sears who contracted Whirlpool and other companies to make appliances to Sears' specifications and rebranded it as Kenmore. It was lesser quality for the price.