How high can a muzzy shoot on a clean barrel? HELP!!!!!

[prostreetcamaro]

Tonight was the last straw and I feel I need some help. I bought a brand new knight disc elite with SS barrel .50 from nimrodder on this forum. I took and cleaned it up real good and mounted my scope with leupold QR rings and bases. I picked up a fresh batch of T7 pellets and a 30 pack of the knight branded Barnes spitzer boattails in 245 grain. I went to the range and sighted it in dead on at 100 yards. I swabed 2 wet patches then 2 dry patches between each shot and I fired a tottal of 16 times that day getting 2" or better groups at 100 yards.


Fast forward to right now. Last saturday was opening of muzzleloader here. During this past week I shot at 3 deer all of which were 100 to 125 yards broadside in a spread of 3 days. I never found any blood or any deer and I felt the shots were good. Each night I would clean the gun spotless.

Now this evening I had a big doe walk up to me only 35 to 40 yards away broadside. I thought to myself "your mine no way i will miss you" and put the crosshairs right square in the shoulder in hopes of a bang flop like I am used to out of barnes bullets. She runs off like nothing happened. I go look and no blood and no deer.

At this point I am thinking maybe something happened with my scope. I reload (the barrel is dirty now) and pick a spot on a big tree and steady the gun against a tree and fire. Perfect hit at 50ish yards. So I reload again and aim at the same spot. The second bullet hit the same spot and made the hole bigger.

What the heck is going on????????? Is it possible for a gun to shoot 8 to 10 inches or more high on the first shot? Thats the only explanation I can come up with? During regular gun season with my benelli nova with rifled slug barrel I dropped 1 8 pointer at 50 yards and 3 large does ranging between 30 to 70 yards and all of the shots were spot on. I concider myself a very good shot so this experiance with this new disc elite has me puzzled.

 

[Anonymous]

I Know that the first shot on a clean barrle will shoot a little high but I never heard of 10- 15" high .
Have you took it back to the range and tryed it on a clean barrle at 100yds
to see were it is shooting on a clean cold barrle, mite want to.
have you checked your bases .

Ron G.

 

[Underclocked]

Have you exhausted the possibility that you ARE hitting these deer?

The only answer to your question is to shoot a shot on a clean barrel under similar conditions and see where she hits. My guess is you will only see a slight deviation from a fouled barrel shot.

Which would leave two possibilities... you are either hitting these deer or you are flinching horribly when you squeeze off a load AT AN ANIMAL.

 

[prostreetcamaro]

I checked the bases. They are nice and tight. I used thread locker on them when I installed them.

When I shoot at a deer my father and I do grid searches if we cant find any blood. I have been deer hunting since I was 12 or 13 and have never had an issue like I am right now and I am about to turn 29. What is really throwing me off is the fact that I was hammering them with my slug gun but now with the muzzleloader I cant seem to hit them or the bullets are passing through and leaving no blood trails which I seriously dbout from my previous experiance with barnes bullets over the years. On one of the 100 yard shots I was able to stand up and rest the gun against a tree for a nice steady shot and still no luck. The last thing I want to do is injure a deer. Over the years I have gotten used to quick clean kills but right now im not sure whats going on.


I just now got done running a wet patch and a dry patch as if I were at the range and am going to leave it like that for the next week till the season ends and see what happens. The 2 test shots this evening at the tree confirms the gun is dead on BUT those 2 shots were on a dirty barrel and the shot at the deer was on a squeeky clean barrel.

Is it possible for a scope to be erratic? The scope is a cheap bushnell dusk to dawn 4X32 thats been in use for about 6 years now. I dont think thats the problem because the 16 shots at the range were very good.

 

[jsteurrys]

I always hunt on a fouled barrel. My Knight DISC shoots a couple inches high at 100 yards.

 

[gobbler getter]

the best thing you can do is sell me the gun

 

[Franksauto]

I always hunt on a clean barrel but I run several dry patches down the bore before loading. I am usually within an inch or 2 on a clean barrel. I have shot at and missed several deer and like you was left wondering what the hell happened. I wish I could explain but I cant. I got 4 shots at the same deer all within 50 yards and blew all four shots. I went to the range and was shooting a one hole group. I dont get it?????
Good luck
Frank

 

[lane]

No,
Sell ME the gun :wink:

 

[jesheba]

I have twice experienced the same senario with Barnes bullets.No hair,no blood. Found one 120 yards and the other 60 yards.Just a tear drop of blood at the exit wound. No blood on the back trail! Turned up leaves were the only clues I had to find them.Upon dressing the animals the thoracic cavity was hamburger.Hard to explain the reason??Maybe the heart stopped pumping. The only deer I have ever knocked off their feet were shot with Powerbelts.They have had such bad reviews I switched to the Barnes and still use them.They get raving reviews.

 

[fliowa]

Scopes can go bad. It is more prominent with the lower end models. My question is besides the tree you rested the gun on during the one shot what were you resting on the other times?

 

[prostreetcamaro]

I have twice experienced the same senario with Barnes bullets.No hair,no blood. Found one 120 yards and the other 60 yards.Just a tear drop of blood at the exit wound. No blood on the back trail! Turned up leaves were the only clues I had to find them.Upon dressing the animals the thoracic cavity was hamburger.Hard to explain the reason??Maybe the heart stopped pumping. The only deer I have ever knocked off their feet were shot with Powerbelts.They have had such bad reviews I switched to the Barnes and still use them.They get raving reviews.

Which barnes expanders do you use? I used to use the regular expander AKA Knight red hot in 250 grain and had amazing luck with those bullets. I got these spitzer boattails in a 30 pack on sale for $16 so I decided to give them a try this year. They looked like they would be a good long range bullet for my new long range gun.

Also you have given me some more insperation to go out tomorrow morning and do some more looking. I could have swore I seen that deer go down this evening through the smoke then jump back up and head toward an area thats super thick with blown down trees.


These are what i used to shoot.

And this is what i am shooting right now.

 

[jesheba]

The first deer was shot with a 300 grain red hot. The second was shot with the 285 spitzer boat tail.

 

[Doohan]

I believe I have fallen off the Barnes bandwagon.

The Barnes bullets perform well when pushed really fast and into heavy bone shots.. For the perfect double lung shot, a 200 sw might perform better.

JD on the board here lost a buck of a lifetime with the same bullet out of his NULA. That deer had a heavy blood trail and left bone and hair at the spot of the shot. That deer is dead, but only the crows know where he lies.

From my testing, I feel the Barnes bullets lack the hydrostatic shock that a lead core bullet may have. For my money I will use a Parker BE ... they are tough enough and they have the most hydrostatic shock I have seen in my testing.

 

[smong2000]

I shot a doe a couple weeks ago with the 245 Barnes spitzer BT at long range. Good thing there was lots of snow because because I only found a couple pin head sized specks of blood on the trail. Found the deer less than 100 yds away but I could envision myself loosing that one if there had been no snow. Shot went through behind last rib to front of opposite shoulder. I will be using something else next season.

 

[bsn]

My disc elit .45 will put the first shot out of a clean barrel about 3 inches higher @ 100yds than the shots out of a fouled barrel (3/4" groups) so I always hunt with a dirty barrel. I have also had a problem with no blood trail with the Barnes. I wonder if there are four dead deer somewhere out there.

 

[flounder]

I would be VERY surprised if you didn't hit at least one of these deer. You may have hit all of them. Always wait a while before looking so you don't drive them away. It is really amazing how far they can go on a kill shot, especially if they know you are tracking them.
Art

 

[Doohan]

I wonder if there are four dead deer somewhere out there

I am thinking the same thing.

 

[redpep]

Try using BullShop 460 .504 conicals, no guess work with these out of my Elite

 

[Anonymous]

Try using BullShop 460 .504 conicals, no guess work with these out of my Elite

You got that right Brother !!!!

 

[prostreetcamaro]

I wonder if there are four dead deer somewhere out there.

God I hope not.


Thanks for all the info and help everybody. I have some 240 grain dead centers here that shoot great also. I think I am going to use those the rest of this season. Anybody ever have any luck with them? They shoot right with the barnes bullets so I dont need to resight the gun in.