Fairly New With Powder/Lube Questions

[rost495]

Hi All

I have lots of experience in shooting and reloading. Not that much in MZ.

Have decided to take an old 54 Renegade on an elk hunt.

I've decided to use real black power with a musket cap. And cast conicals with a wonder wad as over powder.

Sounds like my mind is made up but I"m open to suggestions. Colorado so I have to follow some guidelines and I'm not much interested in power belts or savage rifles.

I put the gun together years ago. I'm thinking to send the barrel in to have TC relieve the muzzle for easy loading.??

I bedded the whole tang and barrel with steel bed- did I make a mistake??

I need a good ramrod for the gun with a GOOD jag that won't loose the patch. Suggestions please.

I need a good RANGE rod too.

Any other info is welcome which includes--once I start testing bullets and powder--- for the 54 I'm guessing 10 grains is a valid change charge to charge?? What increments do most folks test on?

Do differing musket caps vary like primers do in CF ammo-- IE can double or triple a group or cut it in half.

Is there any upgrade to speed up the locktime on the Renegade or just live with it.

Any way or method to firelap the barrel or easily hand lap it without pouring a led lap? Is this needed or does it help any??

Conical ball lube.... I need to load into a clean barrel and was thinking wonder lube. BUt I also need to protect my barrel from rust while hunting. Which means I intend to dry the barrel, load it, then swab the barrel with bore butter or the same wonder lube from whomever makes both... I will also accuracy test in this fashion. Unless told otherwise.

I don't really like the idea of a real petro product in the barrel before firing but will digress to knowledge.

THanks, Jeff Rost

 

[Admin]

Hi All

I have lots of experience in shooting and reloading. Not that much in MZ.

Have decided to take an old 54 Renegade on an elk hunt.

I've decided to use real black power with a musket cap. And cast conicals with a wonder wad as over powder.

Sounds like my mind is made up but I"m open to suggestions. Colorado so I have to follow some guidelines and I'm not much interested in power belts or savage rifles.

I put the gun together years ago. I'm thinking to send the barrel in to have TC relieve the muzzle for easy loading.??

Arre you talking about adding a QLA? If so, I wouldn't. Some folks think that a QLA hurts when conical shooting and that's what you'll have to do in Colorado.

I bedded the whole tang and barrel with steel bed- did I make a mistake??

No idea. Someone else will have to get that for you. I've never bedded a rifle.

I need a good ramrod for the gun with a GOOD jag that won't loose the patch. Suggestions please.

I'd get a XS sights Powerrod and carry the jag seperately.

I need a good RANGE rod too.

T/C makes a good one with a knob handle.

Any other info is welcome which includes--once I start testing bullets and powder--- for the 54 I'm guessing 10 grains is a valid change charge to charge?? What increments do most folks test on?

Your talking about increasing your charge in 10 gr. increments right? That is fine. I'd start at 70 gr and work up.

Do differing musket caps vary like primers do in CF ammo-- IE can double or triple a group or cut it in half.

Probably. I've never really experiemented with primers though. I'm more concerned about having enough fire to start the main charge.

Is there any upgrade to speed up the locktime on the Renegade or just live with it.

There are premium locks availible. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categorie ... x?catID=14 Go down to where it says "Locks: Pecussion".

Any way or method to firelap the barrel or easily hand lap it without pouring a led lap? Is this needed or does it help any??

Don't firelap the barrel. I wouldn't do any lapping at all.

Conical ball lube.... I need to load into a clean barrel and was thinking wonder lube. BUt I also need to protect my barrel from rust while hunting. Which means I intend to dry the barrel, load it, then swab the barrel with bore butter or the same wonder lube from whomever makes both... I will also accuracy test in this fashion. Unless told otherwise.

I don't really like the idea of a real petro product in the barrel before firing but will digress to knowledge.

THanks, Jeff Rost

Don't use that stuff. Your better off with a good oil and cleaning the gun before loading. This means firing caps to blow the oil out of the fire channel and using a solvent to swab the bore. Then dry patch and load.

The only time you'll use a lube is for conicals or patched ball. That is already on the conical or in the patch.

 

[Wolf_River_Mike]

I only tried to shoot those conicals one time. The first time I ever went on a muzzleloader hunt. I borrowed my father-in-laws .58 caliber and he gave me some of those lead, mini ball looking things. Well, I loaded up and was in a climber early Saturday morning. I heard this scratching and was kinda looking around trying to figure out what it was. It stopped...more scratching...stopped...scratching...looking...plop. The bullet had rolled out the end of my barrel and ploped out on the stand. I picked it up and reloaded. About a half hour later, I missed a spike buck.

rost495, this probably has nothing to do with your situation. Your post jogged an old memory to surface. That doesn't happen all that often anymore :? IMO, shoot a patched round ball out of it. They are as accurate as you make them be out to 75-100 yards or so.

 

[rost495]

Thanks for the input so far. More info from my end

I'll be getting hand cast unlubed conicals from a good friend. So I have to lube them myself. I used to use bore butter all the time-- I take it, its bad? Also needing some type of lube in the barrel after loading to keep it from rusting while its loaded and I'm hunting. Don't like the rubbers as they allow the barrel to sweat inside. Can use electricians tape for same result.

Also I won't be using balls as I want to have long range accuracy and knockdown power just in case. The guns are accurate enough and I live to shoot iron sights out to 1000 yards in competition-- just a matter of finding a load that will work past 100 yards if needed and getting the range and drop just right.

Thanks again, Jeff

 

[Admin]

No you'll have to lube em. Bore butter or another wonderlube will work for that. They just don't work in the bore. Keep your bore dry while hunting and you won't have a problem.

 

[Wolf_River_Mike]

rost495 wrote:

just a matter of finding a load that will work past 100 yards if needed and getting the range and drop just right.

I shoot 100 grains FFg out of my 54. It's a 32" Douglas barrel, 1 in 66" twist, if I remember right. That barrel was originally 36" but I cut it down some so I could climb a tree with it. I shot 90 grains out of a TC 50 caliber to make 100 yards. Shot roundballs out of both of these rifles.

The longest shot I've ever had to make with a muzzleloader to date has been 75 to 80 yards. Made that shot 3 times. Never shot much at 100 yards.

 

[rost495]

FWIW the first shot out of one of my Encores 2 years back was 218 yards. No problem. I enjoy getting close and being close and was mostly a target rifle shooter and a bowhunter. But I'm getting older and want to make some hunts count. So the switch to a MZ. Which I feel is easily capable to 200 and beyond. FWIW the Encore I had sighted and was totally confident on a broadside 300 yard shot.

Nope I'm not in this as much for the challenge as for the opportunity and I don't think anyone should be forced to agree with me. I'm only looking for advice from the better shooters and more experienced ones out there.

If I want the challenge again later I'll go back to my Brackenbury custom recurve. I simply dont have the time to hunt this way right now.

Thanks, Jeff

 

[Underclocked]

"I'll be getting hand cast unlubed conicals from a good friend." Get some and tell us about them - what are they, what weight, hollow base or flat base, tapered or straight, pure or alloy? ? Use the wonder lube for the conicals but I would use a dry overpowder wad. The lube on the conical should be sufficient to offer some protection for the length of a hunt. Make sure your bore is clean and dry prior to loading. Snap a couple of caps before loading (I do this against a seated, patched ramrod then inspect the patch for good burn.)

Take some Chap-Stick to seal your cap/nipple and save your lips. I think the finger rubbers would be your best bet on sealing the bore, but a chunk of Saran Wrap with a small rubber band would do the job. Seems to me tape would be much more likely to come off when you need it most.

I'm sure that lock could be tuned but ya best find someone knowledgeable to do the job. I would probably just remove it, clean and lube the internals with something like BreakFree or Militec.

RWS caps if you can find them, might want to consider a musket nipple and cap for the extra fire and ease of handling.

I like Hunter Super Rods from http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/ . They also sell some decent range rods. Be sure to pick up a couple of patch pullers (worms), a fouling scraper, and a bullet puller for your rod.

So far as your bedding the rifle, I doubt that's a problem so long as your wedge pin fits snug but not overly so. Don't wan't that pin coming loose either so bend it a little if need be. Lapping the bore - shoot the fool out of it first. The conicals themselves should smooth the bore.

Powder - you might try some Swiss FFg if you can get ahold of some. Suppose to burn cleaner with less fouling that many true blacks. Realize that you are limited with a pure lead conical to speeds of around 1400 fps max before leading can become a problem.

So far as loads, it's going to depend upon the bullet but I would start at about 80 grains of powder and work up in 5 or 10 grain increments. Check your manual for max load but I think your best accuracy will occur well below the max.

Shoot and shoot some more .... but you know this.