BH 209 vs VV110 with 250 grain sst

[Rangeball]

I'm looking forward to next year and thinking about jumping on the ML bandwagon. Trying to decide if I should get a remmy 700 ml ($150-250ish)/ remmy genesis (Less than $200)/ TC triumph ($350-ish) which are relatively cheap now and use BH 209 or just get a 10 ml. Smokeless is legal in my state.

I know the general pros and cons of smokeless versus non-smokeless, but was wondering about something I thought you guys would know.

Assuming one wanted to shoot a hornady 250g sst at 200 fps. I believe it would take around 100g of BH 209. How much VV110 would it take? 38 grains?

Point I'm trying to make to myself is that I would assume the recoil would be substantially different between these two loads, assuming equal weight guns with the VV being much lower. Right?

The savage would be substantially more expensive to buy new but the cost per shot would be substantially less.

What to do... what to do...

Thanks for any input

 

[DW]

Savage says 42gr of N110=2300fps with a 250gr bullet. In the past I was getting 2300 with 43gr but the new lot of powder is getting approx. 2375fps.
Depending on the gun and bullet/sabot fit, 3-4 grains of powder equals about 100fps in velocity.

Here is the thing, your gun might not like to be shot at 2000fps. 42-43 grains seems to be about the sweet spot for most guns with a 250gr bullet. Considerably cheaper per shot than the subs.
I have never shot BH209 but I've shot enough Pyrodex and 777 to know I will never go back. Don't take this wrong, the smoke poles are more than adequate, but after a taste of smokeless I could not go back.

 

[John S]

If smokeless is legal then there's absolutely no question which way I'd go. I've been shooting BH209 in three different MLs since mid summer, went through 5 cans of it and compared to T7 it is better, but it's got it's own set of headaches to deal with. It does clean up easily, no patching is needed between shots and since it doesn't corrode like the others you can leave the gun dirty for weeks if you want. But... Certain breach plugs just won't give 100% reliable ignition, and ALL of them that do work require frequent and VERY thorough cleaning or else hangfires will be the order of the day. Our Encore PH is the most reliable, going about a dozen shots before the plug needs drilling out and cleaned intensively. The KP1, using the non plastic jacket breach plug is worse, in my experience with 3 of them. I've tried drilling them out, soaking them in various solvents and to date nothing has proven to be 100% effective. My next range session will see me going back to the plastic jackets and matching plug to see if it works better that way. If Knight wants to capitalize on BH209 with this rifle they'd better figure out a better breach plug design. I thought BH209 would put these guns on a more level playing field vs the Savage...not a chance.
In contrast, the Savage is painless. Powder is much cheaper, velocity is better, no ignition troubles. You can have as much or as little performance as you want or need.

 

[Rangeball]

Thanks Fellas, very convincing Everything I've read to date (save the above) about BH 209 was overwhelmingly positive. Not having to deal with the hassles listed above is what was having me consider it as an alternative. If those possibilities are still present, that changes my decision making process, I think.

 

[woodshedvintageguitars]

I can tell you that 43 grains of VV N110 has some stiff recoil, not as much as the slug guns you are used to but you will notice it. I am shooting 250 SST with duplex of 14/61 N110/H322 for about 2600 fps and the recoil is very light, makes me wander why I ever beat myself up with those shotguns for all those years. The Savage is far superior to any of the guns you mentioned, really not evn in the same ballpark. I have shot a brand new Pro Hunter, Encore, Genesis and a 700ML and they are nice for what they are but the Savage is more user friendly, has more load options and can be customized very easily. You can have Stockade build and bed a custom stock and buy a Pac-Nor 45 barrell and you are nearing full on custom territory for around $850 plus 10ML-II. Great guns, IMHO.

Scott

 

[schoolmaster]

Recoil is a function of gun weight, velocity,and weight of the bullet and what ever else you put in the barrel. Two guns of equal weight with equal velocity and equal ejecta will generate the same amount of recoil. Now what we percieve as felt recoil is a different story. Stock design, recoil pad, how well the gun fits all play a part in what we feel. The Savage is a heavy rifle and with a proper recoil pad will have very manageable recoil. In the field shooting at game one seldom remembers the recoil at all. I find that when hunting the hand and arm gripping the forestock take up a lot of the recoil. These are big caliber rifles and need a firm grip to make them behave. Polish up your shooting form and take advantage of the Savage's extra potential.