Knight 1:20 .45 cal SABOTLESS Part 2

[Busta]

I got out with the .45 Disc 1:20 for some more sabotless shooting this evening. I am pretty much out of .452" bullets except to XTP's, and need to get some more of the 300 gr SST's that shot that one hole group the first time out at 50 yards.

Tonight was pretty much the same as yesterday, only 80 degrees today, but the wind was still gusting from R to L. I just can't believe the velocities I am getting with the 300 gr XTP/MAG over 120 gr of Blackhorn 209. With the Federal 209A and Winchester W209 primers, I am getting 2200+ FPS. I know guns that can't get that with a 200 gr bullet and a magnum charge of 777.

I will cut to the chase, I was mainly testing different primers at the 120 gr load level, primers do make a difference. I did have some bullets wander out of the groups, and even had 2 keyhole. They were bullets that were a hair smaller in diameter, and basically slid onto the charge with the range rod. I don't know if these bullets are the right weight and length, but the 300 SST seemed to be perfect last time.

I will just post the pics, the accuracy was not to bad on most loads, but could use some overall improvement. Once I figure out which bullet I will be using, then I will work on the accuracy. This was a brand new jug of Blackhorn 209 Lot# 0107098. I was just loading and shooting, no barrel cooling or swabbing the entire time. All bullets were seated on top of a .466" x .065" card wad. This probably contributed to the much faster velocities than I achieved last time with the leaky .50 cal felt bore buttons. One problem I did have was, every primer but one needed the bolt pulled to remove it from the NFPJ adapter. I was sure glad I had done the spring loaded bolt pin conversion. It may be easier to use the red FPJ's for this type of shooting, and I may just try that next time. This may be especially so when in a hunting situation, nobody wants to be messing around with the bolt for a follow up shot.

I guess I should go find out what bullets those smokeless guys are shooting in their sabotless .45's. Wonder what bullet hold up best at 2200+ FPS? I know one thing, this is a whole lot more fun than waiting around for a barrel to cool.

 

[k]

great report busta,how loose are these bullets in your bore?as soon as i get them started they pretty much slide down the bore but i've only tried a 250g xtp.how much blowback do you get with these loads,do tou use an o-ring with this gun?....karl

 

[DW]

The Parker BE's have been the most accurate sabotless bullet I have tried, the diameter will probably be too small without some heavy knurling in your bore since they are .4505 in diameter.

The 300 SST would be my choice in your rifle, good BC compared to the hollow point bullets and should hold up fine at 2200fps. The 300SST consistently groups under 1.5 MOA @ 200yds @2300fps. Always get one shot out of a 3 or 4 shot group that drops low, never figured it out.

Excellent shooting!

 

[Busta]

great report busta,how loose are these bullets in your bore?as soon as i get them started they pretty much slide down the bore but i've only tried a 250g xtp.how much blowback do you get with these loads,do tou use an o-ring with this gun?....karl

Karl,

The bullets have enough resistance where they need to be pushed down on the charge. Every once in a while you will get a tight one, or a loose one. These are straight out of the box though, and I will be picking up a couple new bastard files soon to help in that regard.

I have been using the real thin 6.5mm x 4.5mm x 1mm o-ring. It will hold up pretty well under normal loads, but after a few of these magnum loads I get soot in the bolt and surrounding area. This is not seeping around the primer, so the o-ring is doing its job. The soot is coming back through the primer itself, as the primers swell in the back where they stick out of the primer pocket. When they swell, they allow blowback soot to seep through them. If the primer sat deeper into the primer pocket, it would stop most of that, but then you might have a severe sticking problem as well?

 

[Busta]

The Parker BE's have been the most accurate sabotless bullet I have tried, the diameter will probably be too small without some heavy knurling in your bore since they are .4505 in diameter.

The 300 SST would be my choice in your rifle, good BC compared to the hollow point bullets and should hold up fine at 2200fps. The 300SST consistently groups under 1.5 MOA @ 200yds @2300fps. Always get one shot out of a 3 or 4 shot group that drops low, never figured it out.

Excellent shooting!

DW,

Thanks for your information, I really appreciate it. Where can I go to to learn more about shooting sabotless? I have heard doug's mentioned, do you have a direct link to this information, or if there is any other place to research this further?

I have tried the Parker 275 BE and it drops right through this 1:20 twist barrel. I also have a 1:30 twist Knight Elite that has a little tighter bore, I had to actually push the Parkers through it, but the .452" bullets area NO-GO, at least without a big hammer. I don't know if the 1:30 twist would shoot them very well, but I know they have smokeless .50 barrels with 1:36 twist that seem to do well at higher velocities.

I know I have a lot to learn, but I was thinking maybe the 300 gr bonded Shockwave might be better at these velocities? I think they have a thicker jacket, and may not obturate into the rifling as well as the standard bullets. Yout thoughts please?

Here is the first go around shooting sabotless at only 50 yards. That was my last three 300 gr SST's, I couldn't believe how well they shot. I also shot my last two 250 gr Shockwaves this last time out. When I get the new files and more bullets, I will give it another whirl.

SABOTLESS Part 1:

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... hp?t=13204

Thanks for any information.

 

[DW]

Below are some links for sabotless, bear in mind these results were obtained with SMOKELESS POWDER and not BH209 or any of the other BP subs.
http://www.swinglock.net/sabotlessindian.html

http://www.shootingandrocketfuels.com/i ... ge0002.htm

Couple of my posts on sabotless, shot with a Ruger #1 with a .457 Shilen barrel:
http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com ... hread=1551

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com ... thread=100

There are guys shooting the 300SST in the 2300-2450fps range in the Savage with smokeless and I don't recall anyone losing a deer due to bullet failure, but if the bonded version makes you more at ease then go for it. I don't believe there is any difference in jacket thickness with the bonded version. You don't seem to have any problems getting good groups with the XTP mags, which have thicker jackets so I think you will do fine with the bonded SW.
Here is a link with some bullets cut up to show jacket thicknesses.
http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com ... 735&page=1

 

[Busta]

Below are some links for sabotless, bear in mind these results were obtained with SMOKELESS POWDER and not BH209 or any of the other BP subs.
http://www.swinglock.net/sabotlessindian.html

Thanks DW! The weakest link right now seems to be the primers. If they were in a better breech plug that encompassed more of the primer, or the bolt didn't have such a large firing pin and hole that allows the primer to flow back into it some, it would be just about perfect.

Michigan doesn't allow smokeless, or it would be real easy to pick up a smokeless rifle and have at it. Until they do, Blackhorn 209 is the next best thing IMO.