Thor and No Excuses sizing packs

[granite7]

TLDR: I took some pictures while trying out Thor and No Excuses sizing packs. I was somewhat surprised at the different sizes for different conicals, but it makes sense that lead is easier to squish down the tube.

With the new muzzleloader, I am bound to hunting with full-bore projectiles for my home state of Colorado. I am starting out with the readily available Thor and No Excuses conicals. At some point, I may consider Lehigh or Bull Shop, but I hesitate because they don’t seem as easy to get ordered. Correct me if I’m wrong here and I’ll happily try them out.

I began testing with the sizing pack from Thor bullets. The bullets are color coded (on the base of the conical) and sized .500 (no color), .501 (red), .502 (black), and .503 (blue). The body of the bullet mic’d right at .500 for each bullet. The only size difference I was able to measure was in the skirt at the base of the bullet, which was sized according to color.


Following the directions, I began with the .500 and worked my way up. The .500 started hesitantly with the palm of my hand. Once started, it was easy to push with the ramrod. I noticed there were a few “rough spots” in the barrel which were a little more difficult to push the conical through. I was also able to start the .501 with the palm of my hand. After starting, it required quite a bit of force to push the bullet down the bore. The .502 required pounding on the starter with my palm and resulted in deforming the skirt on the base of the bullet. It was a chore to push this bullet with the ramrod. I was not able to get the .503 started at all. After being run through the bore, the skirt on each measured just under .500.

Seating the .501 felt like more than 20 pounds of force, but it was the one size in between too small and too large. Based upon this test, I will be moving on to the precision testing with the .501 Thor. I wasn’t thrilled that none of the Thor bullets sealed the bore. This picture below is of the light coming through around the .501. I know the design is for the combustion gasses to expand the skirt at the base of the bullet to obturate the bore. Given the relative difficulty of starting these bullets, I wonder to what extent that actually happens.


Next, I tried the No Excuses sizing pack. There was a night and day difference between the effort to seat these and the effort needed to seat the Thor bullets. The No Excuses sizing pack includes 5 conicals, ranging from .500 to .504. The bases are marked 0 through 4. Well, sort of... It is easier to read the marking in this picture than it was to read them with the naked eye. I was disappointed in the obscurity of the markings on this batch.



The bullets were true to size, or they were at least true within the limitations of my cheap caliper. It was 68 degrees F in the house today and the lube on these conicals was already very sticky. I decided to use the calipers to measure these rather than to make a sticky mess out of my Starrett micrometer.


All sizes started easily with my thumb. While each started progressively harder, they were all relatively the same amount of force to seat with the ramrod. When starting the .503 and .504 conicals, there was a noticeable pop-pop-pop as each band of the conical squeezed past the crown. The .504 even showed some signs of lead being shaved off of the conical. The .503 offered a desirable combination of engagement in the rifling, ease of starting, and force to seat. I will be testing the .503 No Excuses conicals for precision.

[Below: .502, .503, and .504 in order]

 

[GM54-120]

By the looks of your NoExcuses i would say use the .503 if you plan on using BH209 powder. The .502 is probably fine for Triple7 and other subs that require more swabbing.

 

[edmehlig]

I too would probably settle on the 502 size. You may want to see if you can get one sized to 501 and try that one out?

 

[granite7]

Thanks to both of you. I will be using BH209 with this rifle. I reason that you are recommending the .502 No Excuses because of fouling in the bore making it more difficult to seat a conical. I really couldn't tell a difference in seating once the conical was started. Will the fouling also make it more difficult to start the conical?

For those who have used more of these No Excuses conicals, are these pictures normal of the quality of the bullets? I am seeing lube built up on the nose of the conical. I am seeing ripples in the lead, like what I see when I cast bullets in a cold mold or pour the lead too slowly. I know neither of these matter for a sizing pack, but is this normal for No Excuses conicals?

 

[GM54-120]

I dont swab using BH209 unless im shooting sabotless jacketed and sized very tight.

When shooting lead conicals with BH209 its my opinion you want the bullets to be .001-.002 over land size. You could probably go a tiny bit more. I also use a tight fitting fiber wad but its a good idea to try wool also. This will cut down the chance of a miss fire or hang fire. In my 45s this has been flawless. Numerous shots can be loaded with ease and no swabbing required.

Experiment a bit. Like a fiber wad first and then a wool next to the bullet. In a 50cal use the 54cal wool wads. Use the largest 50cal veggies you can find too. I think you can get them in .512 to .518 and .060 thickness. You want the thicker ones not the .030s if possible. Sagebrush or Walters Wad brands offer the larger OD ones in .060 thickness.

If you plan on shooting the NE 420s you probably want to stay under 80gr of BH209 by volume. In a 45cal 80gr gets you over 1400fps with bullets in that weight range. In a 50cal it will be a little less. Personally i would go upto the 460s in a 50cal. Not because its needed for game but they may work better with BH209. It likes heavy bullets.

 

[GM54-120]

BTW email Dan at Bullshop he replies pretty fast. Since you know the size you want to try consider the....

445gr UC Short sized in pure lead unless he can do a 40-1 alloy and lubed with NASA. At least i think it was the NASA that worked well with BH209. He offers 3 different ones. Pretty sure that will be close to $50/100 shipped.

 

[granite7]

@GM54-120

Hey, thanks for all of the feedback. I was planning on the NE 460s, as you suggested. I’ll see if I can find Bullshop’s email address and give him a try also.

I ordered some felt wads in .50 and they were too small to be useful. I’ll try the .54.

I also have a 1/8” overshot card that I planned to test. It seals the bore nicely. I wondered about combining card and felt, so thank you for bringing that up.

What fiber wads would you recommend? I think I saw some vegetable fiber listed on track of the wolf, but I didn’t look too closely at them.

 

[sabotloader]

@GM54-120

Hey, thanks for all of the feedback. I was planning on the NE 460s, as you suggested. I’ll see if I can find Bullshop’s email address and give him a try also.

I ordered some felt wads in .50 and they were too small to be useful. I’ll try the .54.

I also have a 1/8” overshot card that I planned to test. It seals the bore nicely. I wondered about combining card and felt, so thank you for bringing that up.

What fiber wads would you recommend? I think I saw some vegetable fiber listed on track of the wolf, but I didn’t look too closely at them.

Here is the info for Bull Shop

 

[granite7]

Here is the info for Bull Shop

Thanks @sabotloader.

BTW, I found my sight setup thanks to some of your posts here and on another site.

 

[52Bore]

For those who have used more of these No Excuses conicals, are these pictures normal of the quality of the bullets? ... I am seeing ripples in the lead, like what I see when I cast bullets in a cold mold or pour the lead too slowly. I know neither of these matter for a sizing pack, but is this normal for No Excuses conicals?

I saw this in your photos as well...

 

[GM54-120]

https://bullshop.weebly.com/about.html
Prices per 100 Bullets
400 - 449 grains $32.50
450 - 499 grains $34.25
Pure Lead ~ add 20%
Plus lube, sizing and shipping

 

[Busta]

Thanks to both of you. I will be using BH209 with this rifle. I reason that you are recommending the .502 No Excuses because of fouling in the bore making it more difficult to seat a conical. I really couldn't tell a difference in seating once the conical was started. Will the fouling also make it more difficult to start the conical?

For those who have used more of these No Excuses conicals, are these pictures normal of the quality of the bullets? I am seeing lube built up on the nose of the conical. I am seeing ripples in the lead, like what I see when I cast bullets in a cold mold or pour the lead too slowly. I know neither of these matter for a sizing pack, but is this normal for No Excuses conicals?

Not normal, those must have been culls that he decided to use as sizing pack bullets? I'm guessing that they were from getting the mold up to temp?

I was actually shocked when I seen those voids in the ogive, in your pics. The first thing I thought of was, I hope people don't get that as a first impression? If they only ordered a sizing pack, I could see how one could certainly come to that conclusion. I've never ordered a sizing pack, as previously they were only offered in .503", with .500" as an option.

If he is going to use culls for the sizing packs, it might be worth noting that in the tube label. I could see where that could give a prospective customer some pause.

As for the occasional lube in front of the first band, yes I've seen that. The targets, deer, and elk have never complained about it though. If I was just a paper puncher, I might address (remove) that to keep things exactly the same from bullet to bullet.

Maybe Dave will see your post and chime in?

 

[granite7]

Hey, thanks for the input. I would have dropped these back into the pot, but I agree that these must be like seconds that get used for sizing packs.