Sharon barrelled .54 Renegade. Ideas?

[Confederate rifleman]

Was shooting a Hornady .530 ball, .018 Ox Yoke patches lubed with Lehigh Valley Lube and 70 grains of 3f Swiss. Percussion, btw.
Poor thing was blowing patches UP. Ones that weren't in shreds showed uniform cuts on every land. I figured sharp crown. Polished up the crown, but no luck. I used some old .015 pre lubed patches as over powder wads. It helped with the blown ones, but not the cutting.
Today I tried the .018s with Bore Butter and the over powder patch along with 70 grains of 2f Swiss.
VIOLA! Patch survival 100%. Some minor cutting on a couple, but most looked like they could be reused.
Accuracy is still not where it should be. With the LVL patches, 50 yard groups were around 3 inches and not very consistent. The Bore Butter loads are right around 2 1/2 inches. Better. But not good enough. Haven't slugged this one yet, But she loads tight and rams smoothly. This is a spade marked TC barrel with a 1-48 twist.
I would like to see groups no larger than 1 1/2 inches at 50. An inch would be peachy!
Patched ball will not be her primary load, but I would like to have better accuracy when I do use them. I'm thinking of a wool wad over powder. I hear tell going up a caliber is better than actual caliber. I have some Ox Yoke .54-56 wads and the .015 pre lubed gave better results. I use my short starter to push it into the bore and follow it with the patched ball. I swab between shots with LVL.
So. Ideas for 3 shot inch 50 yard groups from a .54 with ball?
Thanks!

 

[eekjellander]

Was shooting a Hornady .530 ball, .018 Ox Yoke patches lubed with Lehigh Valley Lube and 70 grains of 3f Swiss. Percussion, btw.
Poor thing was blowing patches UP. Ones that weren't in shreds showed uniform cuts on every land. I figured sharp crown. Polished up the crown, but no luck. I used some old .015 pre lubed patches as over powder wads. It helped with the blown ones, but not the cutting.
Today I tried the .018s with Bore Butter and the over powder patch along with 70 grains of 2f Swiss.
VIOLA! Patch survival 100%. Some minor cutting on a couple, but most looked like they could be reused.
Accuracy is still not where it should be. With the LVL patches, 50 yard groups were around 3 inches and not very consistent. The Bore Butter loads are right around 2 1/2 inches. Better. But not good enough. Haven't slugged this one yet, But she loads tight and rams smoothly. This is a spade marked TC barrel with a 1-48 twist.
I would like to see groups no larger than 1 1/2 inches at 50. An inch would be peachy!
Patched ball will not be her primary load, but I would like to have better accuracy when I do use them. I'm thinking of a wool wad over powder. I hear tell going up a caliber is better than actual caliber. I have some Ox Yoke .54-56 wads and the .015 pre lubed gave better results. I use my short starter to push it into the bore and follow it with the patched ball. I swab between shots with LVL.
So. Ideas for 3 shot inch 50 yard groups from a .54 with ball?
Thanks!

Mine is a Bob Hoyt rebore with a 1-54 twist not a 1-48 but I load 80 gr of OE 2F a card and a bear oil lubed wad under a home cast 530 ball (pure lead) wrapped in .018 mattress ticking with again (bear oil) . You might work on your bore with Lee Shavers treatment mentioned by Lewis ,it works great ,accuracy and no more patch problems at least (for me) /Ed

 

[Renegadehunter]

I agree. Something is cutting them it sounds like. Old barrel with some pitting or still like new barrel that hasn't been shot a lot?

To me, having to use an overpowder wad with PRB is putting a band aid on some other problem. Yours is likely something cutting the patches. Have you tried pulling a load unfired to see what the patch looks like? I'd start one with the short starter and then pull it back out and inspect. Then push one all the way down and then pull it to inspect again.
My factory 1:48 renegade barrel (no spade mark) shoots best groups at 80 grains of 3f and 90 of 2f. I think you need to tip a bit more powder and those groups will shrink up. Best method is to shoot 3 shots, go up another 5 grains and shoot another 3, etc., etc., until you see the smallest group and they start to open back up again. Be mindful of max charge of course. My pet load right now is 80 grains of Goex 3f, an .018" pillow ticking patch LIGHTLY lubed with some TOTW mink oil, and a .530 RB.
Below is a 50 yard 3 shot group (sand bag off a bench) with that load.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I too have a .54 1-54 Hoyt. Haven't shot it yet as it needs to be rebreeched.
My TC Sharon .54 barrel is in excellent shape. No pitting or rough spots. I did give her a couple good aggressive JB treatments. There's not much blueing left in the bore.
I took a .570 ball and some 400 grit paper and broke the crown edge as it was quite sharp. I haven't tried pulling a ball to see if it still cuts. After the crown job, patches lubed with LVL still cut, but the bore butter patches did not.
I don't mind the extra work of wads. It keeps gas blow by to a minimum. Last time out 7 of 10 patches had no carbon on them. The 3 that did were from less than optimal swabbing.
The .015s I use are lubed with bore butter. I center them over the muzzle and push them in with the short starter. Then load the patch ball. When everything hits powder, I can feel the patch wad flatten out. Recovered patch wads almost look like a ball was shot.
I've always had issues with patched ball. Just couldn't seem to get them to shoot as well as I think they should. But I wasn't as patient as I am now...
I would like to get the maximum load versatility from my sidelocks. Ball, bullet and sabot all have a place in my cache. Just never know what will be available in times to come...

 

[Omega218r]

I have an older 4 digit Renegade barrel as well with rifling in like new condition and every time I try PRB it will blow up the patches and cut them. My thoughts are the rifling is sharp from the barrel not being shot much prior. With my barrel though I use it for conicals so there are no worries.

I had a different barrel (since relined) in .54 cal that had been shot quite a lot before I bought it that shot PRB very well and never cut or blew up its patches.

Anyway long way of saying you can and will get there, just may take a bit more work.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun.
You always learn more from failure than you do from success.

 

[Matthew323]

Most barrel makers agree that for optimum patched ball accuracy, the rifling needs to be at least 0.008" deep.

The deeper rifling, along with a patch that COMPLETELY fills the grooves to the point that the weave of the fabric is compressed into the surface of the soft lead ball, leaving a perfect impression of the weave.

Cut patches demand several things, some of which those of you have already addressed.

1. Gently radius the crown
2. Lap the bore of any sharp factory edges
3. Take a micrometer or calipers to a fabric store such as JoAnns, and search out a TOUGHER fabric with a tighter weave.

It may, or it may not need to be any thicker than the commercially available patches that can be easily purchased online. Only experimentation will tell.

The 0.005" deep button rifling of all T/C sidelock barrels (except the 1:66 Round Ball barrels from the Custom Shop)(which were 0.010" deep) can be VERY PICKY when it comes to patches.

Some shooters find a ball/patch combo right away that gives good to great accuracy. Others struggle and switch to the Maxi-ball, Great Plains, and now sabots with all manner of bullets.

I think that's why there are so many older Hawken & Renegade rifles with little to no wear on them. People got frustrated, and gave up.