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2Barrel

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I know this may be a dumb question but I have to ask. I will be hunting whitetails this year for the first time using a muzzleloader. I will be hunting in a swamp area where the shot will be no longer than lets say 30 yards. I will be using my Triumph, a 250 grn. shockwave bullet and 90 grns. of BH209. Will I get good expantion outta this bullet at such a short range or will it just pass through ? I was thinking that at this range the bullet will be traveling to fast for proper expantion. Am I thinking too hard :?:
 
You are thinking a little too hard :wink: I hunted with that bullet today in a couple spots where 60 yds is a long shot and I have faith in it. I use the yellow tipped ones, not the bonded ones. The bonded ones and the Hornady FTX's I do think are a little hard, but that's just my opinion.

FWIW, the Hornady .452/250 grn XTP makes an awesome bullet for deer. It is not as streamlined as the Shock Wave, and the XTP is not as accurate at 200 yds for me, but if you are hunting in the swamp the XTP is about perfect IMO. And a lot cheaper.

Have fun
 
i'll second the .452 xtp not the magnums the standards, but ishoot them in 300gr. and 60-75 yards is a long shot for my swamps where i hunt. i'm also shooting 90gr. blackhorn my gun groups them at 1 1/2 inches all day, i buy them by boxes of 50 and its super cheap that way.
 
I do have a little concern that you might get a pencil hole through the deer with that Shockwave load at such close range. But if that is all you have, then by all means use it. Like you I hunt close range spots. I like a 300 grain XTP in .430 diameter with a green harvester crushed rib sabot and 100 grains of powder. I believe this will have the expansion and power to blow through and still open. But a deer has never let me prove my suspicions. So this is all guess work on my part.

Also for close shots I like a large conical. Now I have shot a lot of deer with conicals and it just plain plants them. Right now I am shooting a 460 grain conical and a 450 grain UC Short Mag conical out of my Whites. I believe there is no deer born, that can walk off from one of them placed right.
 
2Barrel said:
I know this may be a dumb question but I have to ask. I will be hunting whitetails this year for the first time using a muzzleloader. I will be hunting in a swamp area where the shot will be no longer than lets say 30 yards. I will be using my Triumph, a 250 grn. shockwave bullet and 90 grns. of BH209. Will I get good expantion outta this bullet at such a short range or will it just pass through ? I was thinking that at this range the bullet will be traveling to fast for proper expantion. Am I thinking too hard :?:


Dude...your definitely over thinking this.

You hammer a deer at 60 yards with that load...it ain't going anywhere. Wont be much left of that bullet. You might find the copper jacket, but the core will be on it's way to Mexico. Shockwaves are re -branded Hornady SST's. Now log off, and get yer deer!

Hakx
 
As a general rule, the closer you are the tougher it is ON THE BULLET. In other words, closer means the bullet mushrooms MORE because the forces on it are more powerful. All things being equal, a hollowpoint will open up more reliably, but a polimer tip bullet is supposed to open up well to.

Stop worrying and go hunt! Good luck
 
2Barrel

If you could find them the Speer .452/250 gr. Gold Dot would be the perfect bullet for what you are wanting.

It is a bonded bullet will not come apart, it has a deep hollow point like the older Barnes expanders and will perform from 10 yards to 175 yards.

Finding them is the problem...

http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/h ... d_dot.aspx

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics ... spx?id=211

Here is a picture of some recovered Gold Dots...

GoldDotPerformance.jpg


Also, I would worry a bit about the SW/SST at that close range...

When is your hunt - how much time do you have?
 
txhunter58 said:
As a general rule, the closer you are the tougher it is ON THE BULLET. In other words, closer means the bullet mushrooms MORE because the forces on it are more powerful. All things being equal, a hollowpoint will open up more reliably, but a polimer tip bullet is supposed to open up well to.

Stop worrying and go hunt! Good luck

+1

I never had a deer go more than 60 yards after being hit with a SST/Shockwave, and that is with the 200 grainers, 250 grainers and 300 grainers. Never had one not expand, and only have recovered a 200 grainer after going through both shoulders under the hide on the off-side. I have also used the 250 grain SST in my 20 ga Ultra Slug Hunter at 1900+ FPS with outstanding results. All of the shots were between 40 and 115 yards, never had one get away, nor complain about the bullet I was using. :wink:
 
Shockwaves are re -branded Hornady SST's both would be my second choice for hunting in a swamp or thick cover with no snow on the ground.the BARNES EXPANDER MZ 250 gr. would be my number 1 .
 
2Barrel

Shoot since you have a bit of time you might be able to find some of the Gold Dots, but since the new California rling finding pistol bullets may be really tough for awhile.

Speer is just down the hill from me in Lewiston, ID - I am sure I read a few weeks back that they were going to make a run of Gold Dots... So if you want to try them and can not find them let me know - I am sure I can find some here in the inland northwest...

Another thought since you are shooting a SST/SW which is considered a premium bullet, the suggestion of the Barnes Expander would suit your needs as well as a .451/260 Nosler Partition, that is what I normally use and would highly suggest. Nosler is stopping production of the 260 and 300 grain Pistol partitions and at this time Midway does have a sale going on them.

If you want to try the less expensive Gold Dots and can not find them let me know...

Looks like they might be gone... they only show the bubble packs left...


http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#nosler partition HG____-_1-2-4_8-16-32
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#nosler partition bullets
 
This is strange. Can't get any of my links or even the text to show up. We'll see if this works...

Have no idea what was causing the blank post - it wasn't blank in the text box!

Anyway, Widener's Reloading has the Speer 300 grain Gold Dots in .452 and the Uni-Cor 300 grainers in .451 - either of those should work well.

Recommend you check there for bulk pistol bullets, as well as Graf's, Midsouth, and Midway for bulk sabots and bullets. Cheaper to order them separately as opposed to the pre-packaged stuff. Look iin the reloading sections for the bullets.

http://www.wideners.com/

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/

http://www.midwayarms.com/
 
We use the 250 grain shockwaves with the supplied black sabot for target practice. They shoot great and are easy on the pocket book. Then for deer season we swicth to the all copper 250 grain barnes bullets with the blue sabots. The POI for the barnes bullets are the same as the shockwaves.
IMG_3379.jpg


On this target the highest hole is with a clean barrel out of a Triumph using 80 grains of BH 209, a 250 grain shockwave, at 100 yards. The second hole which is more in the center and a little lower is also a shockwave. The third hole and the lowest, is the 250 grain barnes bullet.
IMG_3377.jpg


I know the barnes bullets are more expensive than the shockwaves, but for 50 cents more a bullet, you get a great performer. For us, one shot per deer is usually what it takes so its worth it for us. We eat alot of wild game so lead poisoning is a concern for me even though it probably is a remote chance.

My son shot a nice doe at 30 yards a few weeks back with 80 grains of BH powder out of his Triumph. It was a complete pass through with a great blood trail.

My son's second deer was shot at 105 yards with the same setup. This bullet traveled a good half length through the deer after hitting a few bones. Great exspansion, no weight loss.
Matts2nddoebarnesbullet.jpg


I won't use any other bullet for deer hunting. The barnes bullets work great using a light load of powder all the way up to a magnum load. They hit hard at close range and also at long distance shots. My nephews recovered bullet from a 200 yard shot on a big buck looked just like the one in the photo.
 
2Barrel said:
Thanks for the help BIG TIME. It gets realy thick where Im at so I want the best possible bullet. Is this the bullet you guys are talking about ?
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... r_sab_blts

those are the magnums, i bought some of the pre packaged ones from traditions in 240gr. dont know the diameter or what kind of sabbot they came with but my gun grouped them in 2 foot groups at 50 yards! i asked alot of questions here called traditions and harvester and went with the .452 300gr. and a harvester crush rib sabbot. they do this now
102_2896.jpg

here is a link to the bullets i use
https://www.hornady.com/shop/Bullet_XTP_popup.htm
and here is the page for them from hornaday the are the 45cal .452 xtp they are about half way down
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_sessio ... c7b72957e0
i personally order they from cabellas in the shooting catalog under the reloading stuff. hope this helps a bit.
 
Most of the bullets suggested here are hard to find right now. The bullet you are using would be the worst one to use out of all the bullets that have been mentioned in this thread, but it may work out for you. You should try to hit the shoulder when you squeeze the trigger.

The Barnes bullets mentioned seem to be available, but i think you will have trouble finding the others mentioned.

A bullet that is available and that works far better than the shockwave, is the Nosler Partition. They are quite easy to find because they are so expensive and most folk don't purchase them.
 
2barrel- that's not the bullet they're talking about. It's the regular (non mag) XTP. They're excellent bullets.
 
I dont think your short range will be that much of a factor if your shot placement is good. Most of the deer I have shot have been in the 30-75 yard range with the longest being 120 yards. They have all been shot with the 250 grain Shockwave bullet and I have had no problems recovering any of the deer. The biggest majority fall where they stand, or go no more than 30 yards.
 
Thanks for all the help. I settled on the Hornady xtp. Not the magnum, in 240 grain.
 
I can tell you first hand that I shot a doe at 5 yards with a 250 gr Shockwave loaded with 100 gr Pyrodex and the initial impact was devastating and did pass through. The front shoulder was all broken into pieces and it passed out the other shoulder. My rule is if they are close (under 20 yards) hit the shoulders. She fell right where she was standing. Do not worry you have a good load, just put it where it counts. I hunted a thin row of trees connecting two large fields that had a small trail. She came right through and stopped in front of me long enough for me to pull the trigger.
 
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