Shockwave Failure?

[AviD]

Interesting picture a butcher put up on an NJ forum.
Said he found it lodged in a deer's spine, completely healed over.

Here's another one another user posted with adequate expansion.

Thoughts?
Inadequate powder load?
Too long range of a shot and not enough KE?

 

[quigley]

Thats interesting. Seems Shockwaves are totally destructive or do nothing at all. I shot a deer 2 weeks ago with a 250g SW, 100g pyrodex, win209 primer. No expansion. But alot of hunters swear by them. Do you think they might perform better at a lower charge, say 80g?

 

[lewistt]

The fact that it still had it's tip tells me it was a LOOOONG shot. I am not a fan of the bullet, preferring an XTP, but I think the blame lies in the ad hype encouraging 250 yard shots. An individual could easily mistake 350 for 250, if they had not practiced range estimation. 250 is pushing it in any case. Heavy bullets are better than light bullets for long range kills with a muzzleloader, due to the low velocity. The offset is a looping trajectory. Make no mistake - centerfires are better due to the velocity. We don't normally push them fast enough to get away with it.

 

[paia]

Interesting picture a butcher put up on an NJ forum.
Said he found it lodged in a deer's spine, completely healed over.

Here's another one another user posted with adequate expansion.

Thoughts?
Inadequate powder load?
Too long range of a shot and not enough KE?

Nothing personal AviD, but I don't believe it. I am not calling you a liar, but I am calling this "butcher" a liar. All kinds of things show up on the internet.... Deer don't get shot in the spine with .50 caliber muzzleloaders run away and heal up.

I've killed a couple deer this year with Shock Waves and they have done fine--I am going to post pics later--but I think I still prefer XTP's.

 

[AviD]

I've shot the XTPs for years and had great results.

With my new Triumph, I selected the SSTs only because I had one day at the range before the season and they grouped well. They're close in design to the Shockwaves...so I found the pics interesting.

I don't know, spine wounds are baffling to me.

The 6 pointer I shot and posted the other day had a huge gash on top of it's back with the spine visible! I actually know the guy that hit the buck and I can't fathom how a shot placed there with an arrow out of the bow he's shooting didn't dislodge the spine and drop the deer.

I don't know the butcher personally, but I too find it hard to believe you'd find a perfect condition bullet lodged in a spine. Weird things happen sometimes though.

 

[choc-dog]

Well the first bullet I have ever seen that struck "Bone" and did not expand. The plastic tips are designed to begin expanding in the first 1-2 inches of flesh penetration.

I wonder if the bullet was dropped from a tree stand into the deer...about as credible as the story.

Chocdog

 

[Dens228]

Lack of expansion was why I switched. I shot a ram at 130 yards and watched it walk off and die in the middle of a field. It took much longer than I would have liked. The exit and entrance hole were the same size and very little, let's make that no, blood on the ground except where the ram fell. The was fine when I could watch in in a field. Wouldn't be so great in the woods.

I switched to 300 grain XTP's and was amazed at the exit, and blood.

 

[paia]

Lack of expansion was why I switched. I shot a ram at 130 yards and watched it walk off and die in the middle of a field. It took much longer than I would have liked. The exit and entrance hole were the same size and very little, let's make that no, blood on the ground except where the ram fell. The was fine when I could watch in in a field. Wouldn't be so great in the woods.

I switched to 300 grain XTP's and was amazed at the exit, and blood.

Did you have a lack of expansion with 300 grn Shock Waves or 250 grain Shock Waves?

I killed three deer with 250 Shock Waves this year and I am happy with the results, but if anything, they seemed to expand more than I like--on a big mature buck, shot broadside/high shoulder, the 250 Shock Wave did not exit. But the deer dropped like a stone, so what am I complaining about...

Still, I have killed quite a few deer with 300 grn XTP's and they are awesome--great penetration, great blood trails (if needed)--I may go back to them.

 

[omegasmoke]

It could very well be a case of bullet tumble also. The bullet could have struck the deer going backwards. I had 250 shockwaves tumbling out of my omega with a 100 gr. load of bh209. You never know if someone was shooting at a deer without properly sighting in the rifle to check for problems like tumbling. A lot of idiots may not even recognize a problem like that on paper.

 

[Dens228]

250 grain. With 120 grains of BH powder, I used the same with the 300 grain XTP's. It may have been a fluke but didn't want to take a chance.
The XTP left a fist sized chunk of lung laying on the ground 15 feet behind where the deer was standing when hit.

Lack of expansion was why I switched. I shot a ram at 130 yards and watched it walk off and die in the middle of a field. It took much longer than I would have liked. The exit and entrance hole were the same size and very little, let's make that no, blood on the ground except where the ram fell. The was fine when I could watch in in a field. Wouldn't be so great in the woods.

I switched to 300 grain XTP's and was amazed at the exit, and blood.

Did you have a lack of expansion with 300 grn Shock Waves or 250 grain Shock Waves?

I killed three deer with 250 Shock Waves this year and I am happy with the results, but if anything, they seemed to expand more than I like--on a big mature buck, shot broadside/high shoulder, the 250 Shock Wave did not exit. But the deer dropped like a stone, so what am I complaining about...

Still, I have killed quite a few deer with 300 grn XTP's and they are awesome--great penetration, great blood trails (if needed)--I may go back to them.