Idaholewis
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Never thought I'd get to this point but i sure enough have, i have officially given up on the idea of Paper Patched bullets for Hunting purposes. The few that know me, know i have put in a literal TON of testing this spring/summer (close to 4 pounds of powder worth) through all of my testing i have had glitches pop up that I just can't ignore, so figured i would share my findings, and give possible solutions to the problems i have found. THIS IS IN NO WAY SHAPE NOR FORM INTENDED TO BASH PAPER PATCHED BULLETS, TAKE AWAY CREDIT OF OTHERS, ETC. ETC. This is simply MY PERSONAL findings through LOTS N LOTS of testing, and a fair amount of pocket change :shock: You are free to take this, or leave it. But in NO way is this thread intended to create an Argument, I will gladly discuss it, and answer any questions you might have etc.
I chose to go with bullets that were slightly under bore from the molds i had custom built, after 2 wraps of onion skin paper i wanted them to put me up to/and slightly over bore depending on the paper i used (not all onion skin papers are created equal) then i would push the wrapped bullets through a sizer die that was 1 thou under bore just to 'iron the paper' out, examples being- for my .45 i chose a .449 sizing die, for my .50 i chose .499 (but ended up going .500) and for my .54s i chose .539, Back in the very beginning I Started out with 8s in the sizing dies (.448, .498, and .538) i found them to be to loose for my liking, this also depended on bore size (not all bores are created equal) Example being- out of 4 different .54 Cals i had 2 that needed .539, But was to tight in my other 2 barrels so i had to go .538 in them, it really comes down to a 'per bore' thing if you are looking for the perfect fit, What is the perfect fit? I personally was looking for a fit that was reasonably tight so i could be confident that the bullets would NOT back off the powder charge. I felt like i had the perfect combos per gun that i could get?
Problem no 1 that I encountered- I have had 3 bullets slide off the powder charge, this happened on my 2 mile trip to the local sandpit to shoot, the road going out to the pit is ROUGH with deep pot holes, etc. I drive a Toyota 4WD that feels about like riding on a 2X6 Plank, my rifle sits in a soft gun case between my seats with the barrel pointed down. My routine involves loading my rifle at home so i am ready with my first shot when i get to the pit, before i shoot this first shot i ALWAYS take my range rod and check my bullet to make sure it hasn't backed off the powder charge on the drive? My first bad experience was with my .50 Cal, i checked the bullet with my range rod and i could not get any movement, i capped the rifle, settled in on my bench and took the shot, the rifle went off but sounded odd? And it did not kick me? I immediately grabbed my soft gun case from inside my truck and checked the muzzle end, SURE enough there was my bullet! This particular bullet had slid out of the paper jacket itself, this particular paper was the new stuff you get from the paper mill store, The bullet here was the S&W 500 that i had sized down to .492-.493, 2 wraps of 9# onion skin paper And ran through my .500 sizing die (the bullet loaded reasonably tight and felt really good to me) This new paper you get from the paper mill store today is REALLY slick stuff and is a bit thinner, i have 2 different types of paper, the New stuff i just described, and some old vintage stuff that has a cockle texture finish to it. The old vintage cockle texture paper i have holds on to the bullet good and tight (it is a tiny bit thicker, between 1-1.5 thou thicker) This leads to problem no. 2 i encountered. (I came home the other day and bump tested all 3 of my Green Mountain LRH barrels, i used a rubber door matt folded in 2 so I wouldn't hurt the muzzles, i seated a bullet in each of my barrels and gave them a GOOD SOLID muzzle bump on the doubled rubber pad, EVERY single bullet slid! The worst one was my .54s with big heavy 500 plus grain bullets (I kinda expected this, bumping the muzzle hard with that big heavy bullet is acting like a kinetic bullet puller)
Problem no. 2 that I encountered is Sticking papers, A true paper patched bullet is suppose to shed the paper at the muzzle. I found if i used the new paper from the paper mill store that you get today EVERY single paper would 'Shuck' immediately upon exiting the barrel which is a great thing! (again this stuff is greasy slick) But if i used the old Vintage cockle textured paper i had REALLY BAD problems with the papers sticking to the bullets and making it all the way to, and even through the target! I performed a test between the 2 papers that involved catching the bullets in a sand trap i had built, I think i shot 5 bullets of each paper type (i have this logged down somewhere with pictures) anyway, i found that EVERY single paper from the old vintage cockle skin stuff had stuck to the bullet and made it to the sand trap (even tho you see some paper fly in the air after the shot that does NOT mean that the whole paper jacket 'shucked' away from the bullet, what you are likely seeing is the front half) i found bits and pieces of paper stuck to the bullets, i even found the entire twisted tale paper base stuck to a few of the bases of the bullets, even after traveling through sand! On the contrary i found that EVERY single paper from this new paper mill store paper had 'Shucked' upon exiting the muzzle, i never found 1 single stuck paper to a bullet with this new paper. Here is another kicker/odd deal, I went ahead and shot the KNOWN sticking papers for accuracy out to 100 yards (i figured they would fly all over?) The DARN things shot INCREDIBLE tight Groups of 1-2" at 100 yards EVEN with papers sticking to them? So is this a problem? Maybe not? But it still bothered me, as i felt the papers should be 'shucking' upon exiting.
Problem no. 3 that I encountered is the reload on a fouled bore. All of my shooting has been done from a bench preparing for the upcoming deer, and Elk hunting seasons, load development etc, i have been shooting for best accuracy, and in doing so i ALWAYS swab between shots with a mixture of 50/50 blue windex and 91% isopropyl alcohol for fast drying, This got me to thinking about a reload in a hunting situation? So i recently started mimicking a hunting situation by reloading a fouled bore, as I suspected i had papers tear apart while trying to cram them down a fouled bore, i found paper pieces stuck on my jag after seating the bullet and pulling the range rod, This tells me that the paper is being torn from the bullet on the way down the fouled bore, you have to remember when shooting a tight paper patched bullet you are NOT using any kind of lube so the fouling left behind is ROUGH, unlike a well lubed bullet where the fouling is somewhat soft from the lube, with paper patched bullets the dreaded 'Crud Ring' is REALLY ROUGH (about like sandpaper) due to being bone dry. Try sending a thin paper jacketed bullet down a blackpowder fouled bore without swabbing, the outcome CAN'T be good, and its not from my testing.
In conclusion, I stil plan to shoot paper patched bullets for fun, especially bench type long rang range shooting where i can take the time to swab good between shots, i will especially be shooting the BACO .444-400s in my .45 Cal for long range fun, Paper patched bullets are a really fun bullet to load, near effortless (The weight of the rangerod is almost enough to send them to the powder) For Target shooting there is nothing better in my honest opinion! But i simply do NOT trust them to walk hunt with, And i never will, I elk hunt in rough country, NO road hunting for me, I put a lot of boot leather to the ground, and usually end up in some nasty rough Canyon where Elk call home, The last thing i need to worry about is my bullet sliding off the powder charge, i would drive myself crazy CONSTANTLY checking the bullet with my ramrod.
I have chosen to switch to lubed Maxi type bullets that fit tight. I recently tried some lubed Bullshop bullets, and my Lyman Plains lubed bullets in my Stainless .50 Green Mountain LRH and i was VERY pleased with the results, so much that i am having a mold made from the Bullshop bullet. Accuracy at 50 yards is EVERY bit as good as my paper patched bullets are. And i FULLY trust the Maxi type bullets, they STAY FIRMLY PUT on the powder! Trust in your gear is a HUGE key to success in my opinion, if you do not fully trust your equipment I personally feel you are defeated before you step out of vehicle on your hunt.
Again folks, this is my personal findings through LOTS N LOTS of testing with paper patched bullets, your mileage may vary? Your trusts in paper patched bullets may vary etc. I am in NO WAY trying to talk folks out of shooting paper patched bullets, just sharing my findings. I will ad possible solutions to my problems below in the next post
I chose to go with bullets that were slightly under bore from the molds i had custom built, after 2 wraps of onion skin paper i wanted them to put me up to/and slightly over bore depending on the paper i used (not all onion skin papers are created equal) then i would push the wrapped bullets through a sizer die that was 1 thou under bore just to 'iron the paper' out, examples being- for my .45 i chose a .449 sizing die, for my .50 i chose .499 (but ended up going .500) and for my .54s i chose .539, Back in the very beginning I Started out with 8s in the sizing dies (.448, .498, and .538) i found them to be to loose for my liking, this also depended on bore size (not all bores are created equal) Example being- out of 4 different .54 Cals i had 2 that needed .539, But was to tight in my other 2 barrels so i had to go .538 in them, it really comes down to a 'per bore' thing if you are looking for the perfect fit, What is the perfect fit? I personally was looking for a fit that was reasonably tight so i could be confident that the bullets would NOT back off the powder charge. I felt like i had the perfect combos per gun that i could get?
Problem no 1 that I encountered- I have had 3 bullets slide off the powder charge, this happened on my 2 mile trip to the local sandpit to shoot, the road going out to the pit is ROUGH with deep pot holes, etc. I drive a Toyota 4WD that feels about like riding on a 2X6 Plank, my rifle sits in a soft gun case between my seats with the barrel pointed down. My routine involves loading my rifle at home so i am ready with my first shot when i get to the pit, before i shoot this first shot i ALWAYS take my range rod and check my bullet to make sure it hasn't backed off the powder charge on the drive? My first bad experience was with my .50 Cal, i checked the bullet with my range rod and i could not get any movement, i capped the rifle, settled in on my bench and took the shot, the rifle went off but sounded odd? And it did not kick me? I immediately grabbed my soft gun case from inside my truck and checked the muzzle end, SURE enough there was my bullet! This particular bullet had slid out of the paper jacket itself, this particular paper was the new stuff you get from the paper mill store, The bullet here was the S&W 500 that i had sized down to .492-.493, 2 wraps of 9# onion skin paper And ran through my .500 sizing die (the bullet loaded reasonably tight and felt really good to me) This new paper you get from the paper mill store today is REALLY slick stuff and is a bit thinner, i have 2 different types of paper, the New stuff i just described, and some old vintage stuff that has a cockle texture finish to it. The old vintage cockle texture paper i have holds on to the bullet good and tight (it is a tiny bit thicker, between 1-1.5 thou thicker) This leads to problem no. 2 i encountered. (I came home the other day and bump tested all 3 of my Green Mountain LRH barrels, i used a rubber door matt folded in 2 so I wouldn't hurt the muzzles, i seated a bullet in each of my barrels and gave them a GOOD SOLID muzzle bump on the doubled rubber pad, EVERY single bullet slid! The worst one was my .54s with big heavy 500 plus grain bullets (I kinda expected this, bumping the muzzle hard with that big heavy bullet is acting like a kinetic bullet puller)
Problem no. 2 that I encountered is Sticking papers, A true paper patched bullet is suppose to shed the paper at the muzzle. I found if i used the new paper from the paper mill store that you get today EVERY single paper would 'Shuck' immediately upon exiting the barrel which is a great thing! (again this stuff is greasy slick) But if i used the old Vintage cockle textured paper i had REALLY BAD problems with the papers sticking to the bullets and making it all the way to, and even through the target! I performed a test between the 2 papers that involved catching the bullets in a sand trap i had built, I think i shot 5 bullets of each paper type (i have this logged down somewhere with pictures) anyway, i found that EVERY single paper from the old vintage cockle skin stuff had stuck to the bullet and made it to the sand trap (even tho you see some paper fly in the air after the shot that does NOT mean that the whole paper jacket 'shucked' away from the bullet, what you are likely seeing is the front half) i found bits and pieces of paper stuck to the bullets, i even found the entire twisted tale paper base stuck to a few of the bases of the bullets, even after traveling through sand! On the contrary i found that EVERY single paper from this new paper mill store paper had 'Shucked' upon exiting the muzzle, i never found 1 single stuck paper to a bullet with this new paper. Here is another kicker/odd deal, I went ahead and shot the KNOWN sticking papers for accuracy out to 100 yards (i figured they would fly all over?) The DARN things shot INCREDIBLE tight Groups of 1-2" at 100 yards EVEN with papers sticking to them? So is this a problem? Maybe not? But it still bothered me, as i felt the papers should be 'shucking' upon exiting.
Problem no. 3 that I encountered is the reload on a fouled bore. All of my shooting has been done from a bench preparing for the upcoming deer, and Elk hunting seasons, load development etc, i have been shooting for best accuracy, and in doing so i ALWAYS swab between shots with a mixture of 50/50 blue windex and 91% isopropyl alcohol for fast drying, This got me to thinking about a reload in a hunting situation? So i recently started mimicking a hunting situation by reloading a fouled bore, as I suspected i had papers tear apart while trying to cram them down a fouled bore, i found paper pieces stuck on my jag after seating the bullet and pulling the range rod, This tells me that the paper is being torn from the bullet on the way down the fouled bore, you have to remember when shooting a tight paper patched bullet you are NOT using any kind of lube so the fouling left behind is ROUGH, unlike a well lubed bullet where the fouling is somewhat soft from the lube, with paper patched bullets the dreaded 'Crud Ring' is REALLY ROUGH (about like sandpaper) due to being bone dry. Try sending a thin paper jacketed bullet down a blackpowder fouled bore without swabbing, the outcome CAN'T be good, and its not from my testing.
In conclusion, I stil plan to shoot paper patched bullets for fun, especially bench type long rang range shooting where i can take the time to swab good between shots, i will especially be shooting the BACO .444-400s in my .45 Cal for long range fun, Paper patched bullets are a really fun bullet to load, near effortless (The weight of the rangerod is almost enough to send them to the powder) For Target shooting there is nothing better in my honest opinion! But i simply do NOT trust them to walk hunt with, And i never will, I elk hunt in rough country, NO road hunting for me, I put a lot of boot leather to the ground, and usually end up in some nasty rough Canyon where Elk call home, The last thing i need to worry about is my bullet sliding off the powder charge, i would drive myself crazy CONSTANTLY checking the bullet with my ramrod.
I have chosen to switch to lubed Maxi type bullets that fit tight. I recently tried some lubed Bullshop bullets, and my Lyman Plains lubed bullets in my Stainless .50 Green Mountain LRH and i was VERY pleased with the results, so much that i am having a mold made from the Bullshop bullet. Accuracy at 50 yards is EVERY bit as good as my paper patched bullets are. And i FULLY trust the Maxi type bullets, they STAY FIRMLY PUT on the powder! Trust in your gear is a HUGE key to success in my opinion, if you do not fully trust your equipment I personally feel you are defeated before you step out of vehicle on your hunt.
Again folks, this is my personal findings through LOTS N LOTS of testing with paper patched bullets, your mileage may vary? Your trusts in paper patched bullets may vary etc. I am in NO WAY trying to talk folks out of shooting paper patched bullets, just sharing my findings. I will ad possible solutions to my problems below in the next post