I just brought my T/C Triumph home Saturday. I also have the Nikon Omega scope to get mounted. From what I've read, I believe I'll be using Hogdon 777 FFG Powder and will stay with the T/C 250 grain ShockWave sabot bullets for now. Am I heading in the right direction. I'm looking into whether I qualify for the free accessories kit from T/C for my purchase. I will be gearing up for the NEXT deer season due to the loss of my hunting spot. I'm so new to this I'm not even sure what all I need or exactly what other questions to ask. I do know each M/L shoots best with certain bullets and powder loads and that I'll have to work up to determine the best load for my gun. Any suggestions for where to start would be deeply appreciated. I have shot a muzzle loader pistol in the past and understand the basic concepts used. Thank you for your help.
New Gun - Where to Start??
- Thread starter Nugent
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If I was starting new with a Triumph I would Shoot Black Horn 209 Powder(100 - 120gr) with the 250 gr. shockwave and a harvester short black sabot. This combination has pruduced some really great groups for shooters on this forum. I also use this load in my Omega with great results. You can order the BH 209 powder from Midway USA or Midsouth Shooters Supply as well as the harvester sabots. This would be a real good starting point.
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The first place to start is with a thorough reading of the owner's manual. I would then break the rifle down and make sure any and all factory preservative is completely removed. Then reassemble - all in accordance with the manual. That will give you familiarity with the rifle's construction and maintenance (I don't know if they mention cleaning the firing pin assembly, but that should also become part of your cleaning routine).
I don't own a Triumph but I think the components you are considering should work well. My guess would be your best results using that bullet will be between 90 and 110 grains by volume of powder. Many here are getting exceptionally good results with BH209 in the Triumphs - apparently that rifle is a near perfect match for the new powder.
I don't own a Triumph but I think the components you are considering should work well. My guess would be your best results using that bullet will be between 90 and 110 grains by volume of powder. Many here are getting exceptionally good results with BH209 in the Triumphs - apparently that rifle is a near perfect match for the new powder.
I got my basic powder info from here: http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html
I have read the manual several times and have disassembled and reassembled the rifle. I don't even intend on shooting it 'til later this fall or next spring.
Thanks for the info on the right powder for my Triumph. I'm setting up to hunt here in Indiana but hope to hunt out west later on. Any opinions on the Vari-Flame adapter? The thinking on it is that 209 primers are somewhat more powerful than needed to ignite the powder and sometimes dislodge the bullet affecting accuracy. The Vari-Flame adapter allows you to use smaller pistol primers (.32 APC) to increase accuracy. Thanks again!
I have read the manual several times and have disassembled and reassembled the rifle. I don't even intend on shooting it 'til later this fall or next spring.
Thanks for the info on the right powder for my Triumph. I'm setting up to hunt here in Indiana but hope to hunt out west later on. Any opinions on the Vari-Flame adapter? The thinking on it is that 209 primers are somewhat more powerful than needed to ignite the powder and sometimes dislodge the bullet affecting accuracy. The Vari-Flame adapter allows you to use smaller pistol primers (.32 APC) to increase accuracy. Thanks again!
Nug
Using blackpowder and/or the substitutes necessitates thorough and timely complete cleaning of the gun after each shooting session to prevent corrosion.
BH 209 powder is a cleaner burning non-corrosive powder which means cleaning is not so critical or required after each shooting session. For that reason alone BH 209 would be my choice provided an accurate load can be found using it.
BassPro here (Central Fla) has it on sale right now for $34.99.
If you are new to muzz guns, I would suggest spending some time at a muzz gun shop and let them or an experienced muzz gun shooter give you some pointers on loading, cleaning, shooting, load development, safety, etc.
Good luck.
Dave1
Using blackpowder and/or the substitutes necessitates thorough and timely complete cleaning of the gun after each shooting session to prevent corrosion.
BH 209 powder is a cleaner burning non-corrosive powder which means cleaning is not so critical or required after each shooting session. For that reason alone BH 209 would be my choice provided an accurate load can be found using it.
BassPro here (Central Fla) has it on sale right now for $34.99.
If you are new to muzz guns, I would suggest spending some time at a muzz gun shop and let them or an experienced muzz gun shooter give you some pointers on loading, cleaning, shooting, load development, safety, etc.
Good luck.
Dave1
Nugent said:
I have some experience with the Vari-Flame adapter. For a beginner I would see it as a distraction. I would concentrate on keeping it simple. That said, the Vari-Flame adapter with small rifle primers or small pistol primers will send less gases/pressure to the powder. This is suppose to fix a problem with full strength 209 primers bumping the charge and/or creating the Triple Seven crud ring. This may be more of a problem with Triple Seven pellets and maybe with large quantities (over 100 grs) of Triple Seven powder. I don't know for sure, I don't use the pellets and I use under 100 grs of powder so I have not had those problems.
Keep in mind that the Vari-Flame system is said to not work well with Blackhorn 209. It will cause hang fires or delayed firing. Blackhorn 209 is best used with regular/full strength 209 primers.
If you are going to use Triple Seven powder, you could test with regular 209 primers that are used for reloading shot shells. If accuracy is good and there is no crud ring when swabbing between shots you should be set. If either problem exists, you could try the "muzzleloader" 209 primers that are available. They are made to be a little weaker but you pay more for them..
I would suggest starting at 80 gr of T7 and work up in 5 gr increments. Hodgdon, on their powder bottles, list 100 gr as max. Others may recommend more, you need to decide for yourself.
Keep it simple, get it to work well and then when that is not enough, or you are ready for more, there is a world of accessories, powders, primers, sabots and bullets that can be tested.
OK. The manual only lists the basic properties and loads of black powder and Pyrodex only. Being a magnum rifle I find loads of up to 150 gr. of Black powder. If Hogdon limits loads to 100 gr. then obviously we're no longer talking about "equivalent" powders. I'm actually leaning toward the Black Horn 209, but I've got a lot more to learn before I load her up. I'm in no big hurry. :wink:
Nugent
A couple of things, plan on 50 to 150 shots with heavy lead bullets to break in the barrel. Trying to use the 25 apc set up with BH209 is selfdefeating. If your Triumph turns out to be like mine then 777 would crud ring so bad that you have to clean the hard ring where the bullet sits out EACH shot. Regular shot gun 209 primers for reloading is what is needed for BH209 the WIN., CCI Federal and REM. brands are you best choices some of the others are to weak as are the special muzzle loading 209's [even though they cost twice as much they hangfire.
Just a bit of info. Hope it helps. Lee
A couple of things, plan on 50 to 150 shots with heavy lead bullets to break in the barrel. Trying to use the 25 apc set up with BH209 is selfdefeating. If your Triumph turns out to be like mine then 777 would crud ring so bad that you have to clean the hard ring where the bullet sits out EACH shot. Regular shot gun 209 primers for reloading is what is needed for BH209 the WIN., CCI Federal and REM. brands are you best choices some of the others are to weak as are the special muzzle loading 209's [even though they cost twice as much they hangfire.
Just a bit of info. Hope it helps. Lee
I just ordered some Hornady SSTs in 250 gr & 300 gr. as well as the short, black Harvester sabots, and some powder tubes. I'm also waiting on the free accessory kit from T/C. Now I learn I need lead bullets? :? Do I really need to break my gun in with bullets I really didn't plan on using?
I think what Lee 9 meant and what I had a TC Customer Service Rep tell me about 7 years ago was to just get some lead projectiles since they are cheap to just shoot and to break the barrel in. I have done this in both my Encore and Encore Pro Hunter by just shooting some cheap lead (Buffalo Ballets in my case since). Don?t shoot for groups just shoot. In my case I didn?t really use that much powder, something like 60 grains and shot 50 to 70 bullets. TC Recommended at least 50 to me.
Curtis
Curtis
I didn't read anything in my manual about breaking the barrel in. That being the case, would it be wrong to get it "on the paper" while breaking it in? I plan on using a see-thru mount for my scope so I'll need to sight in the scope and the open sights. Unless lead bullets are required, I'd rather not foul my barrel with lead and just stick with exactly what I plan on shooting. Is it only a matter of cost, or am I missing something here?
Nugent,
I'm not saying that breaking in your barrel is wrong but I have never shot anything through my Omege except sabots and it will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards if I do my part. I would think that if you use the bullets/ sabots you mentioned and BH 209 you should be fine. But these guys do know a lot about muzzleloading. Again, I'm not saying their wrong for breaking in their barrel, I'm just going on my own personal experience.
I'm not saying that breaking in your barrel is wrong but I have never shot anything through my Omege except sabots and it will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards if I do my part. I would think that if you use the bullets/ sabots you mentioned and BH 209 you should be fine. But these guys do know a lot about muzzleloading. Again, I'm not saying their wrong for breaking in their barrel, I'm just going on my own personal experience.
Just like with most things in the muzzle loading world, there are a lot of opinions and they can all vary. Call TC and ask them what they currently recommend about the break in method for your rifle. They recommended to me at the time to just use something cheap because if you are going to shoot that many shots with 250 or 300 grain shockwaves and your full hunting charge, that will be a little pricey for all the bullets, primers and powder. (not to mention a sore shoulder.) I was not using my desired hunting bullet and charges and didn?t worry about sighting in for a group because of that reason. Some people also just swab their barrels using various other methods. If you have never called TC and talked to one of their techs, they can be very helpful on just about any issue so give them a try.
Curtis
Curtis
Thanks a lot, guys. I haven't even priced other bullet types; I just went by the recomendations given here. I have several other firearms and this is the first I've ever heard of breaking in a barrel. Does it have to do with smoothing out the bore or is it a matter of "tempering" the barrel with heat?
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Break in barrel
Nuge: try this... oiled patch on a bore brush, tight fitting, wipe on JB's Bore cleaner, a fine abrasive cleaner, and push/pull it through your bore for 100 strokes.. might have to re-apply the JBs after ten or so strokes.. should smooth out any wire edges on the rifleing, and smooth out any chatter marks made by the reamer.. will make it a lot easier to load and should shoot good groups right from the get-go.. Surely will save you a lot of powder and lead.. Hope this helps. Les
Nuge: try this... oiled patch on a bore brush, tight fitting, wipe on JB's Bore cleaner, a fine abrasive cleaner, and push/pull it through your bore for 100 strokes.. might have to re-apply the JBs after ten or so strokes.. should smooth out any wire edges on the rifleing, and smooth out any chatter marks made by the reamer.. will make it a lot easier to load and should shoot good groups right from the get-go.. Surely will save you a lot of powder and lead.. Hope this helps. Les
I e-mailed T/C twice; once to verify if I was eligable for the free kit and again what was in the kit and when it might arrive as I have a vacation comming up. The first response agreed that I qualified for the free kit and the second told me the kit would contain everything I'd need to shoot my new rifle and didn't even mention whether it shipped. The kit came today without powder, primers or a powder measure. Don't get me wrong, free stuff is good but I don't understand why I didn't get the truth? I wrote that I was asking so I could start purchasing whatever else I needed. Is this lackadasical customer service typical of T/C or did I maybe catch them at a particularly busy time. It's one heck of a first impression to leave with a first-time T/C purchaser! When treated right I'm loyal like a dog to my chosen brand but now I question my choice even though it's a done deal! Looks like all I need now is powder (BH 209, of course), a powder measure, primers and a range rod. I would've bought all T/C accessories but now I'm open to suggestions. Any thoughts on this recent turn of events for a rookie?
