Lee REAL conicals in my CVA Wolf

[FLYBYU44]

I sold my TC Impact in an auction and purchased a CVA Wolf with the proceeds. When I bought it, I got a Lee REAL 320grain mould as well. The mold works awesome and I am cast soft lead conicals with the top driving band at .515. They load nice and tight in the Wolf, but I can push them down no problem.

I have taken it to the range several times and I don't know what to do with it. Despite my efforts I am not getting any consistent accuracy at all. Before getting the mould, I read reports of people getting great accuracy with these bullets in their Wolf. I should add, I used 50/50 beeswax and Crisco for the lube. I use FFG Goex powder and have used everything from 40-100grains of powder in an attempt to find something it likes. I have used felt wads under the bullet (did nothing for accuracy), I have tried cleaning every shot and also shooting several shots in a row with no cleaning.

It doesn't matter what I do, I get a shotgun-like pattern at 50 yards. For example, using the same charge I will get one dead center through the Bulls eye and the very next shot doesn't even touch the paper. Love the gun and love shooting these big lead bullets, just want to get some hunting accuracy out of it. As it stands now, there is no way I would point this thing at a deer.

I should add that my experience with muzzleloaders is limited to an old .40cal flintlock I used to own (which I could shoot much more accurately with patched round balls). What am I doing wrong here, should I toss the gun in the woods (felt like it after last range visit) or do likewise with my bullets?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Couple Q's. Scope or open sights? Have you considered trying sabots? Are you on a solid rest and sighting the same way ever time? Any loose or tight feeling spots when you load? Check if the sights are loose?

 

[fourbore]

I am just getting back into ML rifle shooting and purchased REAL molds. What I lack in experience, I may make up in recent research. I will be shooting 1:48 twist barrel, which is actually considred on the fast side by the more traditional shooters. I should be fine with pure lead. The modern inlines are much faster twist and that could be your problem. Also you say loading is easy and that is not necessarily so great either. If I was you, my first experiment would be to try 1:20 alloy. It should cast a little larger diameter. The harder alloy will resist getting striped out from the fast twist.

BTW, first thing to do is recover some bullets and look at the rifling marks. I bet those grooves are striped out.

I also added a spin jag to my bag of tricks. Most of my shooting is on hold with corona situation. That is more untested gear.

 

[FLYBYU44]

Couple Q's. Scope or open sights? Have you considered trying sabots? Are you on a solid rest and sighting the same way ever time? Any loose or tight feeling spots when you load? Check if the sights are loose?

Open sights, all my rifles have open sights, at 50 yards I don't usually have issues with eyesight or getting decent groups. My main hunting rifle is a .308 with open sights, which recoils quite a bit more as it is sub 6lbs. I really am not keen on sabots, although I agree they would shoot better I am sure. I want to shoot full bore lead if possible. I am shooting off a rest. The bullet is tight near the muzzle and then loosens slightly as I push it down to the powder. And the sights were loose when I got the gun, but I did tighten them up and check them after every use. They are the older style Dura Sights.

 

[FLYBYU44]

I am just getting back into ML rifle shooting and purchased REAL molds. What I lack in experience, I may make up in recent research. I will be shooting 1:48 twist barrel, which is actually considred on the fast side by the more traditional shooters. I should be fine with pure lead. The modern inlines are much faster twist and that could be your problem. Also you say loading is easy and that is not necessarily so great either. If I was you, my first experiment would be to try 1:20 alloy. It should cast a little larger diameter. The harder alloy will resist getting striped out from the fast twist.

BTW, first thing to do is recover some bullets and look at the rifling marks. I bet those grooves are striped out.

I also added a spin jag to my bag of tricks. Most of my shooting is on hold with corona situaiton. That is more untested gear.

I shouldn't say they load easy, it takes a pretty decent push to get them in the first 4 inches or so and then I can push them down to the powder with moderate effort. I wouldn't want them any larger or I would have to hammer them down the bore. I had bought a case of Hornady Great Plains bullets as well, I literally had to hammer them down the first six inches with the ram rod. I only shoot five total as I thought the ram rod was going to snap if I tried another one. Accuracy was terrible with them as well.

I sure have tried to recover a shot bullet, but so far no luck as my range shoots into stacks of flax bales as the back stop. There is a bale in there full of them I am sure.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Alright, you may want to try some different bullets then. LEE makes some other inexpensive molds. It could just be yours doesn't like REALs. Like Fourscore said, can you find some of the wads or bullets? Maybe try a little harder alloy too. It's way to early to give up on that thing.

 

[Idaholewis]

Open sights, all my rifles have open sights, at 50 yards I don't usually have issues with eyesight or getting decent groups. My main hunting rifle is a .308 with open sights, which recoils quite a bit more as it is sub 6lbs. I really am not keen on sabots, although I agree they would shoot better I am sure. I want to shoot full bore lead if possible. I am shooting off a rest. The bullet is tight near the muzzle and then loosens slightly as I push it down to the powder. And the sights were loose when I got the gun, but I did tighten them up and check them after every use. They are the older style Dura Sights.

Pure lead Bullets are NOTORIOUS for Stripping out/Giving up about Halfway down the Bore, I came up with the Harder Alloy Solution on here a Few years ago, it works like a Charm! 1-40 Alloy is my Preference for combatting the Loosening Problem, 1-20 is AWESOME Stuff on Target, But i feel a Bit to Hard for Good Expansion on Game, And 1-20 you had better Have them Sized EXACTLY Right or you will need a Sledge Hammer to get them Down! 1-40 is a Better Choice

 

[snapbang]

I shot some conicals from my Wolf and the result can be found in INLINE MUZZLE LOADING thread CONICAL ROOKIE SHOOTS. They were supplied to me by Michiganmuzzy and are 1-40. They shot beautiful. Ended with 3 bullets making a cloverleaf.

 

[FLYBYU44]

I shot some conicals from my Wolf and the result can be found in INLINE MUZZLE LOADING thread CONICAL ROOKIE SHOOTS. They were supplied to me by Michiganmuzzy and are 1-40. They shot beautiful. Ended with 3 bullets making a cloverleaf.

Do you know what type of bullet it is? Did you resize or shoot as cast?

 

[FLYBYU44]

Pure lead Bullets are NOTORIOUS for Stripping out/Giving up about Halfway down the Bore, I came up with the Harder Alloy Solution on here a Few years ago, it works like a Charm! 1-40 Alloy is my Preference for combatting the Loosening Problem, 1-20 is AWESOME Stuff on Target, But i feel a Bit to Hard for Good Expansion on Game, And 1-20 you had better Have them Sized EXACTLY Right or you will need a Sledge Hammer to get them Down! 1-40 is a Better Choice

Hi,

To be honest I don't know what the exact composition is. These bullets were cast from reclaimed shotgun slugs, a friend of mine gave me a 5 gallon pail of them a while back. He does Hazmat work and they were cleaning up a police range. He took all the shotgun slugs home.

 

[FLYBYU44]

Alright, you may want to try some different bullets then. LEE makes some other inexpensive molds. It could just be yours doesn't like REALs. Like Fourscore said, can you find some of the wads or bullets? Maybe try a little harder alloy too. It's way to early to give up on that thing.

I really love everything about the gun, just need it to shoot a little better. Even a 3-4" group at 50 yards would make me happier.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I shouldn't say they load easy, it takes a pretty decent push to get them in the first 4 inches or so and then I can push them down to the powder with moderate effort. I wouldn't want them any larger or I would have to hammer them down the bore. I had bought a case of Hornady Great Plains bullets as well, I literally had to hammer them down the first six inches with the ram rod. I only shoot five total as I thought the ram rod was going to snap if I tried another one. Accuracy was terrible with them as well.

I sure have tried to recover a shot bullet, but so far no luck as my range shoots into stacks of flax bales as the back stop. There is a bale in there full of them I am sure.

How about a sizer? Have you got any thing? Or know someone who does? iirc, Snapbangs was .502-.503. maybe you need to try some better bullets? Sized right those HGPs are can be great shooters.

Do you know what type of bullet it is? Did you resize or shoot as cast?

I sized those for him at .503 and cast them out of 40:1 Lead:Tin that i got from RotoMetals.com

 

[snapbang]

Michiganmuzzy, I have more coming from sdporter. I have a few of yours left. Would you be OK If I send them on to FLYBYU44

 

[fourbore]

I am glad I got involved in this discussion. I just realized, I can mix pure lead with 1:20, both of which I have on hand, and make up my own 1:40. I believe I will try that as a start point.

The wolf is in line. That does allow a few more games for debug. As a suggestion, (not from experience), he could drive a bullet clean down and out the other end. A defective barrel might leave some clues in the bullet. it would also be possible to drive a bullet down, remove the plug and drive it back out. In this case feeling for a loss of resistance from an inconsistent bore size.

Also, might as well try a packet of conventional sabots/bullet combo. That is easy. If the gun is messed up, game over.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Michiganmuzzy, I have more coming from sdporter. I have a few of yours left. Would you be OK If I send them on to FLYBYU44

absolutely!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I am glad I got involved in this discussion. I just realized, I can mix pure lead with 1:20, both of which I have on hand, and make up my own 1:40. I believe I will try that as a start point.

Equal parts pure/20:1 should, in theory get you, 40:1

The wolf is in line. That does allow a few more games for debug. As a suggestion, (not from experience), he could drive a bullet clean down and out the other end. A defective barrel might leave some clues in the bullet. it would also be possible to drive a bullet down, remove the plug and drive it back out. In this case feeling for a loss of resistance from an inconsistent bore size.
Also, might as well try a packet of conventional sabots/bullet combo. That is easy. If the gun is messed up, game over.

I think that gun has a lifetime warranty. CVA would, maybe, stand behind it. Not being the original owner, who knows for sure. But I bet he just needs to find the right load.

 

[52Bore]

Are you using a wad?
It will help a lot.

 

[snapbang]

FLYBYU44,

Send me a PM with your address. I will forward a few of those Michiganmuzzy bullets. I loved them. My gun (Wolf) really loved them.

 

[dbowling]

Im going to guess it doesn't like the conical you are shooting, get some no excuse or Bull Shops and try them, if it likes them then get a mold to match them.. Might also only try 65-75 gr powder with the no excuse or bull shop, if you have tried all those different charges then more then likely gun doesn't like the bullet.
Going to guess also that those slugs you used arent pure lead.

 

[45-70]

I sold my TC Impact in an auction and purchased a CVA Wolf with the proceeds. When I bought it, I got a Lee REAL 320grain mould as well. The mold works awesome and I am cast soft lead conicals with the top driving band at .515. They load nice and tight in the Wolf, but I can push them down no problem.

I have taken it to the range several times and I don't know what to do with it. Despite my efforts I am not getting any consistent accuracy at all. Before getting the mould, I read reports of people getting great accuracy with these bullets in their Wolf. I should add, I used 50/50 beeswax and Crisco for the lube. I use FFG Goex powder and have used everything from 40-100grains of powder in an attempt to find something it likes. I have used felt wads under the bullet (did nothing for accuracy), I have tried cleaning every shot and also shooting several shots in a row with no cleaning.

It doesn't matter what I do, I get a shotgun-like pattern at 50 yards. For example, using the same charge I will get one dead center through the Bulls eye and the very next shot doesn't even touch the paper. Love the gun and love shooting these big lead bullets, just want to get some hunting accuracy out of it. As it stands now, there is no way I would point this thing at a deer.

I should add that my experience with muzzleloaders is limited to an old .40cal flintlock I used to own (which I could shoot much more accurately with patched round balls). What am I doing wrong here, should I toss the gun in the woods (felt like it after last range visit) or do likewise with my bullets?

might be the Quick load on the Muzzle