Goex FFFg or Triple 7 FFFg by the numbers!

[SilverHairPatriot]

I am just curious to know what everyone else is using in their revolvers. I’m posting some numbers on my Pietta Remington 1858. I wanted to test for energy first before testing for accuracy. I need to know what powder will do versus substitute. From all accounts, most I have seen post or most I’ve talked to prefer one of the two choices of powder/substitute above. I was using pyrodex (30gr) pellets, and as most here know, I had a very poor range day while using them, so they are no longer an option for me. Here are the numbers:

Goex FFFg 20gr .454 ball Average: 596 fps 110 ft.lbs.

FPS FPE
602 112
609 115
574 102
588 107
605 114
599 111

Triple 7 FFFg 15gr .454 ball. Average: 760 fps 179 ft.lbs.

FPS FPE
749 174
791 194
735 168
766 182
767 182
756 177

Looks like Triple 7 is the choice for power even with a 25% reduction in powder load. For POA and POI testing I will need a lot of patience and quite a bit of time to whittle this piece of iron to optimum performance. It’s challenging and frustrating at times, but I am not giving up. I have to know for myself that this thing will work for me like it worked for my great grandfather. If or when it gets there, either I’ll be a resident expert on all subject matter pertaining to this piece, or I’ll need a straight jacket and a padded room because it drove me nuts. One or the other. I am enjoying the challenge.

 

[smokepolehall]

I don't own a chrony, i use 30 gr of T7-3f & a .454 ball. I have not shot my 1860 New Army very much. Hands supported on my sand bag i can put a palm sized group at 40 yds.

 

[Hausser1]

Good info, thanks. Looking forward to updates..

 

[anonymouscowherd]

Why are you loading so light? You should be seeing 900fps or so....

I run a full 223 case (2cc, about 30gr by weight or volume) of 3Fg real black in my Uberti 1858 with a .454 ball. Have room for a bit more powder too....

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

Why are you loading so light? You should be seeing 900fps or so....

I run a full 223 case (2cc, about 30gr by weight or volume) of 3Fg real black in my Uberti 1858 with a .454 ball. Have room for a bit more powder too....

I was having a little trouble at the range. You can read about it here.

A few of the fella’s like @smokepolehall and @michiganmuzzy suggested I start with a lighter load and work my way up. Once I find the velocities/energy of each powder/load, I will then start testing for accuracy of point of aim/point of impact beginning at about 10 yds up to likely 25 yards. What would your suggestion be after reading about my trouble on range day above.

It might be a good idea to note that with the lighter loads, I’m not sure the ball is seated all the way down in the powder. I am using the loading lever on the revolver this time and the last time I used a loading stand, and the the revolver loading lever only seats the ball down so far before it stops. There may be a gap between the ball and the powder. I don’t use a felt wads because I was told they could possibly contaminate the powder, and they could also affect accuracy, so I use bore butter at the end of the cylinder that covers the ball. I was told the bore butter can help with accuracy by lubing the barrel with each shot, and also prevents chain fires.

 

[smokepolehall]

Here is another tip about a light load. You can use cream of wheat or farina over the powder to raise your column higher in the chamber

 

[anonymouscowherd]

I was having a little trouble at the range. You can read about it here.

A few of the fella’s like @smokepolehall and @michiganmuzzy suggested I start with a lighter load and work my way up. Once I find the velocities/energy of each powder/load, I will then start testing for accuracy of point of aim/point of impact beginning at about 10 yds up to likely 25 yards. What would your suggestion be after reading about my trouble on range day above.

It might be a good idea to note that with the lighter loads, I’m not sure the ball is seated all the way down in the powder. I am using the loading lever on the revolver this time and the last time I used a loading stand, and the the revolver loading lever only seats the ball down so far before it stops. There may be a gap between the ball and the powder. I don’t use a felt wads because I was told they could possibly contaminate the powder, and they could also affect accuracy, so I use bore butter at the end of the cylinder that covers the ball. I was told the bore butter can help with accuracy by lubing the barrel with each shot, and also prevents chain fires.

Air space and BP/subs dont mix.

I use a fiber wad between powder and ball, with a good smear of crisco between wad and ball. Left 4 cylinders loaded for 9 months they fired fine...

Here is another tip about a light load. You can use cream of wheat or farina over the powder to raise your column higher in the chamber

Yup this will work too though unless you need a reduced load for reasons I would rather have the powder instead of grits


In regards to your range session issue I would use loose powder and not pellets, and I would bring the target a lot closer - even shooting my CZ75 I rarely go past 20 yards and when I do it is only to 25 ... See what you do at 10 yards and work from there

 

[smokepolehall]

Yes i reread the first post. It's doubtful you will ever get decent groups using pellets. My manual says for my .44 starting load is 20 gr. Says i can go up some. I loaded mine years back one morning and didn't shoot it for 2 years. Every shot went off when i did shoot my target.

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

Air space and BP/subs dont mix.

I use a fiber wad between powder and ball, with a good smear of crisco between wad and ball. Left 4 cylinders loaded for 9 months they fired fine...



Yup this will work too though unless you need a reduced load for reasons I would rather have the powder instead of grits


In regards to your range session issue I would use loose powder and not pellets, and I would bring the target a lot closer - even shooting my CZ75 I rarely go past 20 yards and when I do it is only to 25 ... See what you do at 10 yards and work from there

I knew that space between ball and powder is a bad thing, but what do I do now that it is loaded? Is it safe to shoot?

 

[smokepolehall]

Is it loaded with pellets or loose powder. I doubt anything will go wrong .I have shot mine with 20 gr no problem

 

[anonymouscowherd]

I knew that space between ball and powder is a bad thing, but what do I do now that it is loaded? Is it safe to shoot?

The Range Nazi Safety Freak in me runs fairly strong so I would pull the loads

But my Inner Redneck also says "20gr is barely half charge, choot it!".

Split difference pull a nipple use a really bright light and see if there is any air space ... then decide.

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

Is it loaded with pellets or loose powder. I doubt anything will go wrong .I have shot mine with 20 gr no problem

The cylinders are loaded with 20 gr of Triple 7 FFFg right now. I have 24 pre-loaded plastic 2ml vials of 17gr. Triple 7 FFFg that I was planning to use at the range to test POA/POI soon. I was also going to pre-load 20gr. And 25gr. Into those vials for testing, too. Personally, I think 30gr. Is too much energy that adversely affect accuracy. But I have never tested 30gr. with anything other than pyrodex pellets, which I DO NOT like and will not use again.

See the 2ml vial tubes that I preload the powder into here. These vials make for quicker loading at the range.

I guess I can go back and add 8gr to those 24 vials filled with 17gr. to give me the 25gr. pre-loads. Then I’ll do 24 vials of 30gr. just to see how it shoots with the Triple 7. I was told that you should reduce Triple 7 loads by 15% of a regular powder (goex fffg) because it lights off quicker and burns faster, which makes it more powerful.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I believe the lightest load ive shot in a ‘58 was 15gr of Pyrodex. That was just a ball and powder. No wad or grease. Just trying out a new to me(and me new to bp revolvers) brass frame Pietta. All my buddies said “its gonna blow yer hand off”. It barely penetrated the tree bark i shot at 10’ away. But no problems. Seated the ball right on the powder… as far as i can remember. That was a while ago.

 

[smokepolehall]

There is nothing wrong with using 20 gr of T7-3F in your pistol. Try it & see how the accuracy is. Only way you will learn about it is to try. I have used Goex 3f & T7-3f. T7 lets mine walk & talk

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

There is nothing wrong with using 20 gr of T7-3F in your pistol. Try it & see how the accuracy is. Only way you will learn about it is to try. I have used Goex 3f & T7-3f. T7 lets mine walk & talk

Thanks for the info. I appreciate your help/advice!

 

[CVA Fanboy]

I don`t own a chrony, Numbers are good though I shoot only pyrodex numbers Match that of triple 7 from others I have seen. We can do the blackhorn209, pyrodex, triple 7 black powder, swiss, goex and others cha cha cha I am along the lines if you have access to it can afford it powder or substitute I care less no matter what your shooting good for you. Keep shooting it

 

[CVA Fanboy]

I knew that space between ball and powder is a bad thing, but what do I do now that it is loaded? Is it safe to shoot?

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I laugh not at the misguided fledglings, but at those who insist the misinformation circle must go on don`t take my word for it, AS I TO were a MISGUIDED FLEDGLING not long ago, I choose to let go perhaps this may help someone.

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH

I laugh not at the misguided fledglings, but at those who insist the misinformation circle must go on don`t take my word for it, AS I TO were a MISGUIDED FLEDGLING not long ago, I choose to let go perhaps this may help someone.

Great video. It’s hard to dispute facts, and this guy was spot on in his demonstrations. I was so impressed, I subscribed to his channel. Thanks for posting that video.

 

[Ernbar]

Bore Butter is messy and runny specially in warm/ hot weather. The BB gets all over your hand and frame when firing. I use beeswax/coconut oil mix from Hobby Lobby in the candle making section. I melt it on a hot plate to my small jar and when cool it’s like a very thick paste that won’t run and stays in each cylinder unlike BB that gets blown out from the adjacent chambers.

 

[ComeOnChristmas]

Bore Butter is messy and runny specially in warm/ hot weather. The BB gets all over your hand and frame when firing. I use beeswax/coconut oil mix from Hobby Lobby in the candle making section. I melt it on a hot plate to my small jar and when cool it’s like a very thick paste that won’t run and stays in each cylinder unlike BB that gets blown out from the adjacent chambers.

50% of both or a little different.