Looks like Toby might be shooting a T/C this fall!

[coh-1]

I know Toby lived in Missouri and I think he lived in Northern Missouri close to where Knight Rifles started before expanding and moving to Southern Iowa. I seem to recall that he helped push for a muzzle loading only season and expanded season here in Missouri when he lived in the state in the late 80?s or early 90?s.

No matter what your opinion of the man is he has a lot of knowledge and experience in the sport going all the way back to his traditional hunting days.

 

[SWThomas]

Do you really think any one person could screw something up, where the State would take away a muzzleloader season? :?

I don't see why not. To hear you tell it, apparently one man has made it possible for me to hunt with an in-line. :wink:

 

[Underclocked]

I've disagreed with Toby many times (the Pedersoli Denali as rifle of the year would be one example) but I believe Busta has portrayed the situation accurately. The man has paid his dues and continues to contribute good, solid info to the sport as well as being a driving force to push for change on issues he sees as unfair.

 

[john keyes]

I had not known about the website, I checked it out and it has a lot of material and reference for reading. pretty cool.

At least he is not known to be a poacher, and that should be an improvement for T/C

I read the blown up savage thing too and I have to say at least he is basing his claims/theory on what seems to be legitimate shortcomings in design and implementation ie not putting enough thread on the BP. But, not to hijack the thread...
-I doubt most average ML shooters (who are not ate up lunatics like us) would put enough shots through the BP enough to cause a problem
-and if they incorporate all the designs they want to the price of the rifle off of the production line would be prohibitively expensive

 

[txhunter58]

Do you really think any one person could screw something up, where the State would take away a muzzleloader season? :?

I don't see why not. To hear you tell it, apparently one man has made it possible for me to hunt with an in-line. :wink:

No actually, I was the other half of the team that got it done!

I think you know we are not saying he is soley responsible, so don't put words in our mouth.

 

[SWThomas]

No actually, I was the other half of the team that got it done!

I think you know we are not saying he is soley responsible, so don't put words in our mouth.

Not putting words in anyones mouth chief. Go back and read Busta's post and you'll see my post reflects his claims.

 

[txhunter58]

OK, I reread Bustas post, and I stand by my statment, you are putting words in his mouth when you say:

"apparently one man has made it possible for me to hunt with an in-line."

We are going to have to just agree to dissagree on this one, chief.

Good hunting.

 

[Busta]

Do you really think any one person could screw something up, where the State would take away a muzzleloader season? :?

I don't see why not. To hear you tell it, apparently one man has made it possible for me to hunt with an in-line. :wink:

SWThomas,

I know all you are looking for is an argument. I can only ignore you so long.

You show me where I said "one man has made it possible for you to hunt with an in-line"? You cannot do it! You go back and read the post's.

I did say this, you must have missed it? "I guess if you have only been muzzleloading for a year or two, you might not really see what the efforts of those that came before you were over the last 25 years or longer." So what is it, a year, or two?

There were several people involved in those efforts, probably even some of the forum members here. Maybe you are one of the ones that don't appreciate their efforts, but I do. I know several others that do also.

Anyone can join a Forum such as this and shorten their learning curve, even some so called writers. They learn from people that have paid their dues, the ones who actually helped develop all this information (people like Toby and several people on this forum), then try to pass on that knowledge as THEIRS. I can spot a GREENHORN INTERNET JOCKEY a mile away!

You still have a lot to learn, Grasshopper! :lol:

 

[coh-1]

SWThomas,

Since you are a relative newbie to the sport and this forum, here is a North Americn Whitetail Magazine article link from October 2007 that was written by Toby on the sport today (2007) and where it came from. It mentions like Busta said a breif history of the modern inline that Knight and others developed going back to the 70's. He mentions the the development of sabots, powder, the manufacturers, etc.. He mentions some states game laws and how the sport has grown from the days when your only choice was traditional with an old patched round ball. When I say grown, I'm taking about number of hunters and seasons like a few of us mentioned in this thread already. Toby and others like him helped with those changes all across the US.

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/h ... W_1007_02/

 

[SWThomas]

SWThomas,

I know all you are looking for is an argument. I can only ignore you so long.

You show me where I said "one man has made it possible for you to hunt with an in-line"? You cannot do it! You go back and read the post's.

I did say this, you must have missed it? "I guess if you have only been muzzleloading for a year or two, you might not really see what the efforts of those that came before you were over the last 25 years or longer." So what is it, a year, or two?

There were several people involved in those efforts, probably even some of the forum members here. Maybe you are one of the ones that don't appreciate their efforts, but I do. I know several others that do also.

Anyone can join a Forum such as this and shorten their learning curve, even some so called writers. They learn from people that have paid their dues, the ones who actually helped develop all this information (people like Toby and several people on this forum), then try to pass on that knowledge as THEIRS. I can spot a GREENHORN INTERNET JOCKEY a mile away!

You still have a lot to learn, Grasshopper! :lol:

Here you go...

"Like it or not, he has done more to promote hunting with a muzzleloader nationwide than any other PERSON!

I am sure some of the hunting opportunities you enjoy with your inline today, are a result of his efforts from 20 to 25 years ago when some states didn't allow much more than a roundball."

 

[SWThomas]

SWThomas,

Since you are a relative newbie to the sport and this forum, here is a North Americn Whitetail Magazine article link from October 2007 that was written by Toby on the sport today (2007) and where it came from. It mentions like Busta said a breif history of the modern inline that Knight and others developed going back to the 70's. He mentions the the development of sabots, powder, the manufacturers, etc.. He mentions some states game laws and how the sport has grown from the days when your only choice was traditional with an old patched round ball. When I say grown, I'm taking about number of hunters and seasons like a few of us mentioned in this thread already. Toby and others like him helped with those changes all across the US.

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/h ... W_1007_02/

That is a good article and I'm glad I read it. I have never disputed that TB knows what he's talking about. But as with most instances, one public foul up can erase a lot of good things in some peoples eyes. Maybe I just have higher standards for integrity than some, but in my opinion he's dishonest and I don't care too much for people like that.

 

[Batchief909]

Regardless of what one thinks about Toby,,,he HAS done more for muzzleloading than most wannabees. The facts are out there if you look for them. It's kinda silly to argue and dispute those facts. 8)

 

[lane]

SWThomas,

I know all you are looking for is an argument. I can only ignore you so long.

You show me where I said "one man has made it possible for you to hunt with an in-line"? You cannot do it! You go back and read the post's.

I did say this, you must have missed it? "I guess if you have only been muzzleloading for a year or two, you might not really see what the efforts of those that came before you were over the last 25 years or longer." So what is it, a year, or two?

There were several people involved in those efforts, probably even some of the forum members here. Maybe you are one of the ones that don't appreciate their efforts, but I do. I know several others that do also.

Anyone can join a Forum such as this and shorten their learning curve, even some so called writers. They learn from people that have paid their dues, the ones who actually helped develop all this information (people like Toby and several people on this forum), then try to pass on that knowledge as THEIRS. I can spot a GREENHORN INTERNET JOCKEY a mile away!

You still have a lot to learn, Grasshopper! :lol:

SW

In response to Busta,

A statement like, "I Stand Corrected" usually works in situations like this :wink:

 

[Busta]

SWThomas,

I know all you are looking for is an argument. I can only ignore you so long.

You show me where I said "one man has made it possible for you to hunt with an in-line"? You cannot do it! You go back and read the post's.

I did say this, you must have missed it? "I guess if you have only been muzzleloading for a year or two, you might not really see what the efforts of those that came before you were over the last 25 years or longer." So what is it, a year, or two?

There were several people involved in those efforts, probably even some of the forum members here. Maybe you are one of the ones that don't appreciate their efforts, but I do. I know several others that do also.

Anyone can join a Forum such as this and shorten their learning curve, even some so called writers. They learn from people that have paid their dues, the ones who actually helped develop all this information (people like Toby and several people on this forum), then try to pass on that knowledge as THEIRS. I can spot a GREENHORN INTERNET JOCKEY a mile away!

You still have a lot to learn, Grasshopper! :lol:

Here you go...

"Like it or not, he has done more to promote hunting with a muzzleloader nationwide than any other PERSON!

I am sure some of the hunting opportunities you enjoy with your inline today, are a result of his efforts from 20 to 25 years ago when some states didn't allow much more than a roundball."

SWThomas,

I still stand by those statements, but it doesn't say he did it all by himself, it says he has done "more". It does not say, that there were not other people involved in that effort. If you can't see that, I can't help you!

You still didn't answer my question, "So what is it, a year, or two?" Maybe LESS?

Some of us learned muzzleloading the old fashioned way, by actually doing it. Some of us actually know the HISTORY behind it. Some of us know the trials and tribulations of those that went before us went through. Not only for themselves, but for all, including yourself to enjoy.

Today, you could spend a couple weeks on the internet and possibly know more than someone that took 5 to 10 years to actually learned it on their own. BUT, DO YOU REALLY KNOW IT, OR DO YOU KNOW WHAT SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS?

I look at it like "reverse engineering". You really didn't do the work it takes to get to where you are today, yet you benefit fully from copying something that others have blood, sweat, and tears invested in. You didn't REALLY learn anything along the way, you are just mimicking what you have discovered through reading, what works for the majority. We have several "reverse engineered" muzzleloaders, and Muzzleloaders these days. Some are very appreciative of the information and opportunities they enjoy, some give back, some just take, and some have an agenda.


*Disclaimer*
The "You" used above is used in general terms, not directed at any one "person". We all fit in there someplace.

 

[SWThomas]

SWThomas,

I still stand by those statements, but it doesn't say he did it all by himself, it says he has done "more". It does not say, that there were not other people involved in that effort. If you can't see that, I can't help you!

You still didn't answer my question, "So what is it, a year, or two?" Maybe LESS?

Some of us learned muzzleloading the old fashioned way, by actually doing it. Some of us actually know the HISTORY behind it. Some of us know the trials and tribulations of those that went before us went through. Not only for themselves, but for all, including yourself to enjoy.

Today, you could spend a couple weeks on the internet and possibly know more than someone that took 5 to 10 years to actually learned it on their own. BUT, DO YOU REALLY KNOW IT, OR DO YOU KNOW WHAT SOMEONE ELSE KNOWS?

I look at it like "reverse engineering". You really didn't do the work it takes to get to where you are today, yet you benefit fully from copying something that others have blood, sweat, and tears invested in. You didn't REALLY learn anything along the way, you are just mimicking what you have discovered through reading, what works for the majority. We have several "reverse engineered" muzzleloaders, and Muzzleloaders these days. Some are very appreciative of the information and opportunities they enjoy, some give back, some just take, and some have an agenda.


*Disclaimer*
The "You" used above is used in general terms, not directed at any one "person". We all fit in there someplace.

Busta,

I understand your position now and I apologize for taking what you said out of context. I was just going off what you posted and I can now see that I interpreted what you posted differently than what you meant when you posted it. If you saw my replies as me being antagonistic, I also apologize for that. I'm not constantly looking for an arguement, even though most of the time it turns out that way. I'm just head-strong and when I think I'm right about something I exercise a lot of tenacity. Sometimes a little too much.

To answer your question, I've only been muzzleloading since December of last year. I have never claimed to be an expert on anything related to muzzleloading and only pass on information that I've learned from other peoples experiences. I have figured out some things about muzzleloading on my own, but the vast majority of what I now know is due to the great people on these forums that take the time to post their experiences and help people like me. None of us were born with a muzzleloader in our hands and we all were ML Newbies at some point in our lives. I'm just getting to the party a little later than most.

So to end this arguement we are having, I appreciate what you and all the other muzzleloader savvy people have done to better educate me about this new hobby I've become so passionate about. Even Toby Bridges. But I still don't like him.

 

[Busta]

SWThomas,

Thanks for your reply. I don't know if an apology was ever neccessary for me? But, I appreciate it, and accept it.

I shot my first muzzleloader in 1975, I still learn something new every time I shoot or visit one of these sites. None of us have all the answers, nor will we ever. Pioneers like Toby were not on every website, because there were no websites. They actually wrote books back in those days, and very few I might add. Some of those books are still a good read.

 

[UtahRob]

I really don't care much for Toby and feel TC would be making a mistake having him on the team .IMO . I am also not a Smokeless ML fan and i hope they don't allow it here . I don't think they ever will . But that just me . :wink:

 

[Lee 9]

While I disagree strongly with Toby on the killing power of a round ball, [the right size PRB would kill a dinosaur] and what blew up that Savage I have to admit he has done a lot for the sport and I don't hesitate to use some of his information. Lee