CAL. is too small of a ball to load.

[toot]

I just today traded for a 36 cal. under hammer rifle THE OFF HAND. HOPKINS & ALLEN. the problem that I am having is that I cannot load it with a .350 DIA. RB, with or with out a patch. it is just too big. what is the problem?

 

[dbowling2]

it sounds like it might not be .36, does it say .36 on the barrel? Possibly a .32, is the ball a lot too big?

 

[Fyrstyk]

Many of those H&A guns had metric bores. Yours may be 9mm or .355. I may require a .345 or .343 ball and patch to load.

 

[toot]

it sounds like it might not be .36, does it say .36 on the barrel? Possibly a .32, is the ball a lot too big?

no I can get it to go down with a steel rod and a mallet. I miked it and it comes out at .355 DIA. so it is indeed a 36 CAL. gun.

 

[toot]

Many of those H&A guns had metric bores. Yours may be 9mm or .355. I may require a .345 or .343 ball and patch to load.

Grimord , I think you have solved my delima. no ware have I seen the info. that you provided me? 9m/m-.345-.343, DIA. so I just ordered 300 of .340 DIA hand cast RB'S from TRACK OF THE WOLF. problem solved. thanks for the help.

 

[toot]

BTW, TOTW SAYS that the .340 DIA, RB'S are for older H&R'S. because they have a smaller 36 CAL DIA. again thanks for the help.

 

[texsam1949]

what toot said, the underhammer , even though called a "36" is more true a "35" so a .340 rb will work fine, you will have fun with that rifle !

 

[Hanshi]

Back in the mid 1960s I ordered an H&A Heritage model underhammer .45. The bore on that rifle is rather tight and a .435" ball is recommended; a mold came with the rifle. However I was able to load and shoot .440" ball from a Lee mold. The patch had to be thinner than what I use in my other two .45s but could be seated with the wood rod. The 15/16" barrel is rifled with a "gain twist" and the grooves are quite deep. The barrel also appears to be American made as I've found no foreign markings on it as yet. The barrel is marked with "Hopkins & Allen", an engraving, "The Heritage Model", another engraving and "Numrich Arms, West Hurley NY". The "stampings" are crisp and strong. This barrel is also extraordinarily accurate.

The use of one large flat spring for the trigger guard, hammer spring and trigger spring is effective and very efficient, but it poses a dilemma. That being the tiny extension of the tg serving as a tg return spring. My original spring did hold up for many years but eventually the tg return leaf died; the trigger had to be pushed forward with the thumb. This meant a hassle to get the hammer in half cock and full cock. I would have thought a separate spring would more efficient and easily replaceable. I think this was in fact done much later, at least in some variations.

Currently my H&A is a wall hanger for the reasons mentioned above; I will figure something out a fix. Several other identical tg springs have been tried but the return leaf in all of them "took set" right away.

 

[toot]

what toot said, the underhammer , even though called a "36" is more true a "35" so a .340 rb will work fine, you will have fun with that rifle !

texsam1949 rite. I will let you know when I get them. wonder how many people are in the same situation as I was? hope they read the posts? again thank's for the help.

 

[toot]

just remembered that I forgot to ask a crucial question. in my 36 CAL under hammer what would I use for a starting load & a maximum load, patched or bare ball? I don't have any books on black powder loads. in the past in some of my larger caliber guns I have had good results in bare balling.

 

[Fyrstyk]

My std load for the 4 .36 caliber guns I have is 35 grains of 3f with a .015 mink oil lubed patch. Some of my guns prefer more powder, but this is a good starting load. For plinking I use 20 grains of 3f.

 

[user 23626]

Back in the mid 1960s I ordered an H&A Heritage model underhammer .45. The bore on that rifle is rather tight and a .435" ball is recommended; a mold came with the rifle. However I was able to load and shoot .440" ball from a Lee mold. The patch had to be thinner than what I use in my other two .45s but could be seated with the wood rod. The 15/16" barrel is rifled with a "gain twist" and the grooves are quite deep. The barrel also appears to be American made as I've found no foreign markings on it as yet. The barrel is marked with "Hopkins & Allen", an engraving, "The Heritage Model", another engraving and "Numrich Arms, West Hurley NY". The "stampings" are crisp and strong. This barrel is also extraordinarily accurate.

The use of one large flat spring for the trigger guard, hammer spring and trigger spring is effective and very efficient, but it poses a dilemma. That being the tiny extension of the tg serving as a tg return spring. My original spring did hold up for many years but eventually the tg return leaf died; the trigger had to be pushed forward with the thumb. This meant a hassle to get the hammer in half cock and full cock. I would have thought a separate spring would more efficient and easily replaceable. I think this was in fact done much later, at least in some variations.

Currently my H&A is a wall hanger for the reasons mentioned above; I will figure something out a fix. Several other identical tg springs have been tried but the return leaf in all of them "took set" right away.

Hanshi first I would offer to give your rifle a new home, but then all of my H&As have a separate music wire coil spring for the trigger return held in place by trigger screw/shaft passing through. Out

 

[toot]

My std load for the 4 .36 caliber guns I have is 35 grains of 3f with a .015 mink oil lubed patch. Some of my guns prefer more powder, but this is a good starting load. For plinking I use 20 grains of 3f.

thanks 4 the come back. I will start with the plinking load, 20 GRS. and see how it performs and move up to the other one 35 GRS and a .010 patch and move up to a .015 patch. 3 FG ALL THE WAY! BTW where in heck do I get MINK OIL?

 

[Hanshi]

Hanshi first I would offer to give your rifle a new home, but then all of my H&As have a separate music wire coil spring for the trigger return held in place by trigger screw/shaft passing through. Out

Unfortunately mine is too old to have used that little spring; I do have one I got years ago from somewhere. But I'll eventually come up with a "shade tree smith" solution.

My best accuracy, by a small margin, in the .32 has been 30 grains of 3F. Twenty grains in the .32 - and in my .36 - shot tiny groups at 50 yards. I've even tried 40 grains for equivalent performance.

 

[Fyrstyk]

thanks 4 the come back. I will start with the plinking load, 20 GRS. and see how it performs and move up to the other one 35 GRS and a .010 patch and move up to a .015 patch. 3 FG ALL THE WAY! BTW where in heck do I get MINK OIL?

Track of the Wolf carries Mink Oil. I have been using it for years. I like the fact that it does not get hard or freeze up in cold weather. Most of my BP shooting and hunting takes place in the cold months.

 

[RhinoDave]

I have a H&A full stock, side lock .45 cal. rifle that is under sized as well. I can force a .440 ball down with a very thin patch but its tight and impossible after a couple of shots without swabbing the bore. I went to a .433 ball and solved my loading problem.

 

[texsam1949]

I have a H&A full stock, side lock .45 cal. rifle that is under sized as well. I can force a .440 ball down with a very thin patch but its tight and impossible after a couple of shots without swabbing the bore. I went to a .433 ball and solved my loading problem.

you got the minuteman rifle ! I had it as a kit gun, was fun to assemble and finish, lock was ok , was in .36 (.35) cal so that 1" barrel was hefty on it !

 

[toot]

Track of the Wolf carries Mink Oil. I have been using it for years. I like the fact that it does not get hard or freeze up in cold weather. Most of my BP shooting and hunting takes place in the cold months.

thanks for the information to my question.

 

[Hanshi]

TOW mink oil is my preferred lube for hunting for all the reasons given. At the range I use Hoppes at least half the time.

I ordered an H&A flint .45 Minuteman, I guess some 52+ years ago and can't even remember how it got away from me. I did have it for several years and it was reliable, accurate albeit a might "nose heavy". In short, I liked it. I fired the same ball in it that I fired in the underhammer.

 

[texsam1949]

Here I am with my finished H&A Minuteman .36 cal flintlock. 1975 (ok have fun with the tie and decor)