When is enough?

[porkchop401]

Yesterday I was visiting my neighbor (more capable than most) who I travel to CO. to elk hunt with . He made the comment I wish we could use a scope on our ML out there. My first thought was it would make it that much harder to draw a tag. He asked how I figured that?
Well more folks would want to draw (makes it easier) if they could use a scope and that meant more competition the draw.
I am from Louisiana a state where 25 years ago we had a primitive weapon season. Then the folks of our state wanted somthing easier so the politicians forced LADWF to ease tegs and allow non mag scopes. Then magnified scopes
Not long a after that single shot open hammered rifles firiing straight walled cases was allowed . People wanted more still so the state allowed 35 caliber and larger bottle neck cartridges to be used.

Now our primitive season is nothing but modern rifle season that starts a week early.
I believe that if we remain silent hunting season will become an app in this life controller we call a phone. You could lay up in your recliner get a notification of where a deer is zoon in on him and touch the kill button . Call a pick up and process service (Grubhub) and you have your success with out any effort!
So when I see these ads for extreme long range it is about letting your wallet do the hunting and you taking a short cut to what hunting is about.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Make no mistake, I am an unrepentant inliner. But here in Pennsylvania, our after Christmas flintlock season is a wonderful hunt. Want to wear modern camo ( I do. For now) or get outfitted like an 18th century long shirt? Knock yourself out, so long as you're totin' a flintlock. There's always a push to open it up to percussion, but I hope it never happens.
I use my inlines and sidelock percussion in our October muzzleloader and regular gun season. Couldn't be happier. Leave the primitive seasons alone.

 

[fishdfly]

Yep, no argument here.

 

[Idaholewis]

I hope & Pray Idaho doesn’t change their Muzzleloader ONLY Rules. You can stil use an inline in it, But NO SCOPES, Sabots, 209s, Etc. Basically everything that makes the Inlines so “Great” They are forced down on the Same playing field as us Guy’s with Sidelock Muzzleloaders, Which is Cool

We are already increasing Population in ALARMING numbers, The harder the Hunt is “Primitive“ The less people wanna Play, I LOVE it this Way

 

[snapbang]

Michigan allowed all legal firearms used during the regular firearm season to be used during the muzzle loader season this year. Our muzzle loader season is gone.

 

[fishdfly]

That is not right.

 

[porkchop401]

It would be asking too much to just extend the rifle season and leave the primitive season alone.. society is interested only instant gratification and sportsmen are not exempt.
Lord forbid somebody have to pass on an animal because it is just out of range or had to pass because it was getting dark. It is those things that make us a better hunter(stalking skills/ time management/marksmanship)

 

[snapbang]

It would be asking too much to just extend the rifle season and leave the primitive season alone.

Its that easy.
Or have a second gun season in January.
Or how about having a muzzle loader season before the regular gun season. (Our Muzzle season runs after reg. firearm)

 

[bluemule66]

our North Dakota muzzleloader season runs a week after rifle season. Of course it is after the main rut (cant deny the rifle hunters an easier hunt for dumb bucks). 1x scopes, and all flavor of bullets, sabots, and round ball are legal .45 and bigger, inline, percussion, or flint. They take the number of deer tags available, and set aside 10% for muzzleloader. They changed the rule that you don't have to have an outside swinging hammer several years ago. Now instead of getting a license about every other year, now it is 7-10 years.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Michigan allowed all legal firearms used during the regular firearm season to be used during the muzzle loader season this year. Our muzzle loader season is gone.

Thought that was only in the CWD areas around Lansing? As I .... "thought".... I understood it, the remainder of zone 2 and 1 didn't allow even straight walled???

 

[one-shot]

Hit the nail on the head. Here in Virginia you can take the hunters safety course, and then get a hunting license on line. Cant read, write or understand English, no problem. Have someone do it for you. You could (Until this year, now you must do an NRA course) do the Conceal Carry Permit course on line and get the permit. Lowering standards is a slippery slope.

 

[D55]

Lewis has proven you don't need barn burner loads to reach out there. I only shoot sml now but not because of longer range and I wouldn't mind seeing seasons become ml or archery only. It would weed out the true hunters maybe? If all I was allowed was a smoker I would have to start smoking again. Only firearm I hunt with since 2002 is ml, and it is no handicap.

 

[snapbang]

Thought that was only in the CWD areas around Lansing? As I .... "thought".... I understood it, the remainder of zone 2 and 1 didn't allow even straight walled???

Ill look it up again. But we hunt with a lawyer (need one to interpret the law) and he organizes our hunts. He said bring any gun you want just allowed one in the chamber to hunt with us. For safety reasons.

 

[mike nelson]

Similar things have happened when hunting bows evolved into the early compound bows. I as well as many got into them after hunting with recurves because of the let-off (then about 30%) that allowed us to increase out draw weights to get flatter shooting and more penetrating arrows. Then the let off increased by manufacturers to the point that a person could not shoot them with fingers and had to go some type of release. Now the bow sights extend out in front of the bow like stabalizers from old time target archers. Used to be one needed a doctors letter stating some kind of physical disability to use a cross bow but now no restrictions. I fear the craze with the so called "long range" centerfire rifles and now even MZ rifles will bite us down the road. I watched a fella on tv the other night taking a shot at a Muley buck @ 71 yards with his bow and rangefinder. Claimed the buck jumped the string. The same thing can happen with "long range" shooting with rifles.

 

[Bushfire]

Similar things have happened when hunting bows evolved into the early compound bows. I as well as many got into them after hunting with recurves because of the let-off (then about 30%) that allowed us to increase out draw weights to get flatter shooting and more penetrating arrows. Then the let off increased by manufacturers to the point that a person could not shoot them with fingers and had to go some type of release. Now the bow sights extend out in front of the bow like stabalizers from old time target archers. Used to be one needed a doctors letter stating some kind of physical disability to use a cross bow but now no restrictions. I fear the craze with the so called "long range" centerfire rifles and now even MZ rifles will bite us down the road. I watched a fella on tv the other night taking a shot at a Muley buck @ 71 yards with his bow and rangefinder. Claimed the buck jumped the string. The same thing can happen with "long range" shooting with rifles.

I know a guy that got sick of missing deer with his compound and rather than focussing on being a better hunter and shooter he went out and bought one of those sights with a kind of range finder where you press a button and it literally tells you where to aim.

I said at that point you may as well just use a gun, my brother vehemently disagrees but then again he would rather shoot a stag at 1000 yards than risk not getting a shot. Mind you that's the norm in sambar country. They live on big mountains here and people are sick of not getting shots on deer at long ranges, my brother was saying yeah but look how many good deer you can get. I pointed out there are only so many good stags there because up until now they haven't been shot from that far and to watch the age class go down over the next decade.

I cop a lot of flak, some in jest some actual criticism from family and friends about using muzzloaders and moreso using open sights and bows. It has cost me some good deer and in their eyes I'm an idiot because of it. I don't think I'm high and mighty or anything but I do think the difference lays in the fact that my passion has always been for nature, the hunt itself and putting as much in favour to the game as possible. But the instant gratification of killing a big deer is the norm here.

Australia has a MASSIVE cultural issue with trophy hunting. First hunting magazines and now social media has encouraged the instant gratification generation of killing deer as a tool for recognition so the respect for the life of the animal has gone. By that I mean that in my experience less than 50% of deer hunters eat game. I once served some to a guy who had hunted deer for 30 years and shoots 20 or 30 a year that he posts online (both male and female) and he was clearly grossed out by the idea of eating venison. Most will happily shoot 3 or 4 stags in a weekend here if they can, cut off the head to post a pic on social media and leave the entire animal to rot. That's entirely legal too by the way.

I've digressed as normal, point is i think you guys need to make sure you hold on to traditional seasons as much as you can because for every inch you give you can guarantee the masses will be lining up to do the easiest thing possible. You don't want to end up where we are, there's no incentive to use anything other than a centrefire and a scope for 12 months of the year. I know a couple of bow hunters that stick to private but still never met another black powder or open sights hunter in the field.

This is one of many i have found, nothing other than the skull cap taken.

 

[Idaholewis]

I know a guy that got sick of missing deer with his compound and rather than focussing on being a better hunter and shooter he went out and bought one of those sights with a kind of range finder where you press a button and it literally tells you where to aim.

I said at that point you may as well just use a gun, my brother vehemently disagrees but then again he would rather shoot a stag at 1000 yards than risk not getting a shot. Mind you that's the norm in sambar country. They live on big mountains here and people are sick of not getting shots on deer at long ranges, my brother was saying yeah but look how many good deer you can get. I pointed out there are only so many good stags there because up until now they haven't been shot from that far and to watch the age class go down over the next decade.

I cop a lot of flak, some in jest some actual criticism from family and friends about using muzzloaders and moreso using open sights and bows. It has cost me some good deer and in their eyes I'm an idiot because of it. I don't think I'm high and mighty or anything but I do think the difference lays in the fact that my passion has always been for nature, the hunt itself and putting as much in favour to the game as possible. But the instant gratification of killing a big deer is the norm here.

Australia has a MASSIVE cultural issue with trophy hunting. First hunting magazines and now social media has encouraged the instant gratification generation of killing deer as a tool for recognition so the respect for the life of the animal has gone. By that I mean that in my experience less than 50% of deer hunters eat game. I once served some to a guy who had hunted deer for 30 years and shoots 20 or 30 a year that he posts online (both male and female) and he was clearly grossed out by the idea of eating venison. Most will happily shoot 3 or 4 stags in a weekend here if they can, cut off the head to post a pic on social media and leave the entire animal to rot. That's entirely legal too by the way.

I've digressed as normal, point is i think you guys need to make sure you hold on to traditional seasons as much as you can because for every inch you give you can guarantee the masses will be lining up to do the easiest thing possible. You don't want to end up where we are, there's no incentive to use anything other than a centrefire and a scope for 12 months of the year. I know a couple of bow hunters that stick to private but still never met another black powder or open sights hunter in the field.

This is one of many i have found, nothing other than the skull cap taken.
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That is HORRIBLE, But sadly I’ve seen that same thing, and worse here. People are their own worst enemy

 

[jrbarnes]

I definitely think that it is a slippery slope between making seasons easier so that more people become involved. At some point laws will have become so relaxed in order to get more people involved that populations could see an affect

 

[fishhawk2700]

It's never enough for the State of Michigan. Michigan has announced for the upcoming 2021 deer season, "universal antlerless permits". Use any place any season where antlerless hunting is allowed. This just proves that the NRC (Natural Resources Commission), who are political appointees, want all the deer dead. The DNR is no longer targeting areas that are heavily populated, they are targeting all antlerless (including button and shed bucks) everywhere. Not enough deer shot in a certain DMU, no problem, call the DNR kill crews. Yes, the DNR has crews of "sharpshooters" that come in and kill EVERYTHING within a designated DMU that they feel has not had a large enough harvest. Now maybe I'm overreacting, but lets see, any weapon, anyplace, any season, kill crews.....looks like the big lobbies are winning.

 

[one-shot]

Ive never been a fan of spray and pray, or buckshot. In order to solve a problem you need to understand it. Northern Virginias Sept to April deer season and resident/snow goose are the end results of a problem, not the beginning. I have helped remove 60 plus deer in a night from a park next to I66. All went to hunters for the hungry. When they do the national park or the "Big Airport" much wasted meat. CWD (started in game farms?) (Tainted processed feed?) is here in my county and soon there. We humans created these problems and we can solve them.
Animal collisions, Lyme, Rabies and other exotic dieses when plotted on a map are in a lot of cases right on top of each other.
The wheel that makes the most noise gets the most grease. Your right the Lobbies are winning.