What are you shooting for a load for a traditional smoothbore ???

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Buck Conner1

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I'm working on a load for a "On the Money" copy of a NW Trade Gun I had built the past years. Different than anything offered because of it's bore size; .50 caliber smoothbore using a custom barrel down sized to the spec.s of the original found in a displace years ago at the Denver Art Museum. Doc White and myself had talked about this piece for several years until "I pulled the trigger, build this gun Doc".


Sharpe NW Trade Gun.gif

This would be an interesting subject for those that shoot smoothbores (traditional firearms) whether they are military or sporting type of weapons.

White Fox said:
This year I decided to turkey hunt using a different gun from the 12 gauge Rem 870 my parents gave me on high school graduation. Worked up a load for a 20ga/60cal "Chief's Gun". Final load was 2 oz of copper plated #5 shot over 90 grains of 2fg. No cushion wad, just two over powder wads and an over shot. Patterns in this cylinder bore gun said to stay under 25 yards.
What are you shooting ??? :coffee::cheers:



 
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Here's an interesting article. (Part 1)

The Versatile Smoothbore B. E. Spencer

Smoothbores, you gotta love 'em, and it seems everyone does. My own experience with them began in the summer of 1997 when I bought my first, a 20 gauge/.62 caliber Carolina Smoothbore, from Jackie Brown. With minor exception, I have used no other gun for hunting since that time, and it has been a great pleasure. I've used many types of black powder guns in the last thirty years, and had some grand adventures with them all, but nothing quite measures up to the smoothbore.

There are many things about the smoothbore type guns which I find appealing. High on the list is the style of some of the early guns, which fits right in with the time period which attracts most of my attention, that of the mid-18th century. In his book, __The Longhunter's Sketchbook__, Dr. James Hanson describes a gun in the collection of the National Park Service at Morristown, New Jersey which he calls a "Kentucky fowler". It matches my gun almost exactly. The style is of the early Virginia rifle, flintlock, stocked in tiger stripe maple, and is from about 1775. Like many of the guns of that period, mine has a long barrel, forty-six inches, and is cylinder bore.

Nothing impresses me more about flintlock smoothbores, though, than their versatility. They are truly a "gun for all seasons". All the species which I normally hunt are fair game for the gun, and I have taken several species of both large and small game with mine. It matters not whether the quarry calls for a well placed ball out near a hundred yards or a charge of shot thrown in haste at a darting bunny, the gun can do the job, and very well.

I can never decide which I enjoy more, shooting ball or shot. It has been great fun and very educational working up loads for both types of shooting. Being a muzzle loader makes it easy to custom load each and every shot, of course, depending on the situation at hand.

The first round ball I ever shot from a smoothbore was actually done with a double barrel side-by-side flintlock shotgun, a twenty gauge. That was quite a few years ago, about 1990. That was long before the current craze of smoothbore shooting had come about, and getting information about round ball loads for one was essentially impossible. I had never shot a round ball from a shotgun, knew no one who had, and could find nothing written about it. I had to just make it up as I went along. I don't know why, but when I began to develope a round ball load for the gun, I thought of it as a shotgun, not a rifle, and loaded it accordingly. I put down powder, then a hard card overpowder wad and a half-inch cushion wad, then a patched round ball. For many years before that, I had shot nothing but black powder rifles, and it was my custom to load a ball which was .005 inch smaller than the bore diameter of the rifle. With a patch of about .015-.017 inch thick, most all my rifles would load easily and shoot very accurately. I naturally tried that combination in the shotgun, but it would not work, at all. In a rifle, especially one with deep, cut rifling, there is a lot of room for a patch to be crammed into. With the smooth barrel of the shotgun, there was nowhere for any excess patch to go, so I had to use a much smaller ball, one .020 inch smaller than the bore. That translated to a ball of .600 inch for the .620 inch twenty gauge. That has been my standard ball for all these years, in every 20 gauge I've ever shot.

Using that setup, I was able to shoot some very good groups with the double, on the order of 1.5 inches at 25 yards and 4 inches at 50. When the thought finally occurred to me that I might be able to load the gun like a rifle, with just a patched round ball over the powder, no wads, I tried it out, but didn't get results nearly so good, so I've stuck with that original loading method for all these years. Never quit a winning combination.

That double flinter had only a bead front sight on the rib, no rear sight, and I never felt the need for one. I feel the same about the smoothbore, which has a fairly high blade front sight, only. That required a different sight picture than I had always used for a rifle, of course, but it works, and works very well. I've always been very interested in learning the skills used by our forefathers, and I think that's the way they shot, so it's what I do, too. I hear a lot of people complaining about that lack of a rear sight, and I hear a lot of rationalizing as to why they put one on their guns, but I'm not convinced it's historically correct. I have taken five deer in the last four seasons with the gun, at ranges from fifteen feet to sixty-five yards, and have never felt the need for a rear sight. From a rest, I've shot groups as small as three and a half inches at seventy five yards, and that will get the job done for deer, every time. Just a few days ago, my hunting buddy and I were doing some informal shooting, and we both hit targets of four to six inches, offhand at sixty-five yards a high percentage of our shots, and that will also get the job done. Who needs a rear sight?

Fouling is more of a problem in a smoothbore than in a rifle, in my experience. In the same way there is no space for a tight patch to hide in, there is no room for much fouling, so I've learned to do a few things to combat this problem. First, I always shoot FFFg Goex powder, which is cleaner burning. Yes, I know that is contrary to the conventional wisdom, but I've been doing it for many years without a single problem. Second, my cushion wads, which are the paper felt ones from Circle Fly, are always soaked with lubricant. The lubricant is usually just plain lard or solid Crisco, and I simply melt it and put the wads in until they are covered. I then take them out and drain them on paper until cool, then press on them with a folded paper towel to squeeze out the excess grease. These are carried in a small tin in my pouch, and they allow me to shoot essentially all day without cleaning in any way. That is of little importance in most hunting situations, but is a real boon on a busy dove shoot.

Smoothbore4.jpg
When it comes to loading the ball, I shoot two different combinations. For most hunting, and for those times when I need best accuracy, I load a ball patched with a well greased (beeswax/lard) ticking patch .017 inch thick. For casual shooting, I usually load a bare ball followed by a thin overshot card wad. This needs to be done carefully. I ram the overpowder card wad, then press the cushion wad into the muzzle until it is just below the crown by a fraction of an inch. I then position the ball, sprue down, in the center of the wad and ram them both down, being careful to keep everything lined up straight. This is followed with the overshot card. I've shot this last combination enough to know it will give me almost as good accuracy, most of the time, and it's simpler and quicker to load. The offhand shooting I mentioned above was done using this loading, and I was impressed with the accuracy.

So, my load for all round ball shooting is 80 grains of FFFg Goex, a .125 inch hard card overpowder wad, a .500 inch cushion wad soaked in lubricant, and then the ball, either patched with .017 inch ticking or loaded bare and followed with a .0625 inch overshot card wad. That loading gives me 1475 fps at the muzzle and an easy trajectory to work with in the hunting field...one inch high at twenty-five yards, two inches high at fifty yards, on target at seventy-five yards and about four inches low at one hundred yards. This method works well enough for me that I have no inclination to change it.

Smoothbore3.jpg
Smoothbore1.jpg

In the field after small game, using the gun as a shotgun, I vary my loads according to the need, but generally stick to some standard ones under average conditions. As with the loads for round ball, I shoot only FFFg Goex for shot loads. Reduced fouling is a good enough reason to do this, but I also feel the quicker ignition helps me score a little better when wing shooting.

BC
 
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Interesting article. (Part 2)

The Versatile Smoothbore B. E. Spencer

I actually think the cylinder bore is an advantage in the small game field, and that many modern shotgunners take to the field with a gun which shoots too close. That depends somewhat on your own style of shooting, but I work up close, and it works for me. Distances from twenty to thirty-five yards seem ideal, and most of my shooting falls within that range.
Smoothbore5.jpg

Except for the change from round ball to shot, my small game loads are built exactly like those for the round ball, using the same wads, lubricants, etc.

For hunting rabbits, I find that 60 grains of FFFg and an equal volume of #6 shot (7/8 oz.) usually does a good job. I've rolled rabbits cleanly out to 35 yards with this load, yet it's not too heavy for those close shots in heavy cover.

The same load works for squirrels, but I will frequently increase the shot to 70 grain equivalent (about 1 oz.), and maybe go up in size to #5. The heavier shot has a bit more energy at the target, and for our large Kentucky fox squirrels, that's not a bad thing.

Quail hunting around my neck of the woods is a pale imitation of what it was when I was a boy, because of the significant decline in the population, so I never go out looking for quail. If I stumble on a covey, I just shoot at them with my rabbit load, and that works, occasionally. If I were to load specifically for them, a charge of 50-60 grains of FFFg and an equal volume of #7 1/2 shot should do the job.

Nothing beats an afternoon on a hot dove field with a flintlock fowler, and I look forward to each fall season. I use two types of charge for these birds, depending upon how they are flying. If they are tending to come in low and close, then I find that 60 grains of FFFg and 70 grains equivalent (1 oz.) of either # 7 1/2 or #8 shot works well. If I'm caught where the doves are flying high or far to the side, then I increase the powder to 70 grains FFFg and the shot to 90 grains equivalent (1 3/8 oz.) to increase pattern density. The extra powder compensates for the reduced velocity of the heavier shot charge, and I've found this combination to be a good one.

I hunted turkeys for two years with my cylinder bore flintlock fowler, and took two birds. I've spent more time working on turkey loads than on all others combined, and still am not fully confident unless the bird is very close, under 20 yards. Because of the demand for excellent penetration and the large charges of shot used, I increase the powder to 80 grains FFFg in all my turkey loads. The same wad system works best in my cylinder bore, too. I experimented with a variety of shot loads, up to 2 1/2 oz. of #6, trying to get that strong, dense pattern necessary for head shots at these big birds. I finally settled on 1 5/8 oz. of #6 shot. This load will put an average of 8 lethal pellets in the skull and neck bones of a turkey at 25 yards, and that will do, most of the time.

Either magnum or nickel plated lead shot should improve these turkey loads somewhat. These pellets deform less because of their increased hardness, and should tend to "fly" less, giving tighter patterns at all ranges. I've been doing some patterning with these two, but have reached no conclusion, thus far.

Deer, turkey, rabbit, squirrel, quail and doves, all taken with the same gun, easily and well. Not a trivial thing, but no real problem for the flintlock smoothbore. It will get the job done, if you will do the work required to get to know it well. For me, there is an easy answer to the question of what gun I would choose if I could have only one... a flintlock smoothbore.

Copyright © B. E. Spencer 2000 All rights reserved.

 
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More.

Shot Patterns and Smoothbores by Alan J. Kimbol
Smoothbore load.

One of the things that make a smoothbore so versatile as opposed to a rifle is its ability to use shot for clay targets and smaller game. However, few shooters ever take the time to get the most out of their guns. They will spend hours on the range to get the proper fit of patch and ball, then more hours getting the right powder charge. When it comes to shot they just dump a powder charge down the barrel and stick in a wad or two, then an equal volume of shot and an over-shot wad, and go hunting--often to somewhat less-than-hoped-for results.

The fact is that in order to shoot shot in a smoothbore you have to spend as much time (and quite possibly more) to work out the bugs. Like rifles, smoothbores are very finicky as to what they will shoot well. Rarely are two alike. One gun shoots #4 shot to a perfect pattern and the next gives a pattern that you could sail a dinner plate through without a scratch. I really can't tell you why, only that it happens. Here are some hints you might try if you'd like to improve your patterns.

First of all, most smoothbores bought off the shelf have not been subjected to the tender loving care a custom gunsmith would give his guns, so your barrel may still have some boring (machining) marks in it. A cleaning rod with "0000" steel wool run up and down in the barrel a couple hundred times will go a long way to make your bore smoother. (It also helps your accuracy when shooting the patched round-ball.) Once that's done it's time to go to the range.

Just about everything I've read on patterning a shotgun or smoothbore says to pattern the gun at thirty yards. Why? I feel that you should pattern your gun at the distance you intend to shoot. If you intend to shoot at twenty-five yards, set your target there. A smoothbore has no choke; it is cylinder bored, so its effective range will be limited. More on that later. First we need to develop a load.

I would suggest that you start with an equal volume load, which uses the same volume of shot as of powder. Repeat: volume, not weight! With my fusil, a .62 caliber (20 gauge) I would use the 7/8ths of an ounce of shot setting on my Lee shot measure for my powder measure. This throws 65 grains of FFg powder. I then add an overpowder hard wad which is .125" (1/8") thick. Then I put in two "Ox-Yoke Orignials" Wonder WadsTM cushion wads that I've lubed, and then the same measure of shot that I used for powder. Over that I use an over-shot wad that is only .030" thick. It helps to poke a hole in it with an awl or knife to ease loading. (That lets the air escape, but not the shot).

You've got to visit the range to find out what's required. If you intend to shoot at twenty-five.

This gives me a place to start. I will now shoot three or four of these to see how they pattern. I set up my 36" X 36" target at twenty-five yards, load as described, prime the pan, and shoot. Looking through the spotting scope I see that the bottom half of the target is well covered with shot, but the top half got away Scot-free. This tells me that my POA (point of aim) has to be adjusted. Aiming (or should I say pointing) a smoothbore is easy once you know where the shot is going. Don't get out your file yet; shoot two or three more to make sure they all go low. Then adjust as necessary. You now have your POA and should be able to aim at the center of your target from here on out.
Determining POA (Point of Aim) is the first step in finding out how youur smoothbore deals with shot. Here it is low and to the right.​

If there are gaping holes in your pattern there are other things you can try. The first of these would be to cut back on the powder five grains. Rarely does increasing the powder help; in fact, it will normally worsen the problem. Try three or four shots that way. Then try a different wad arrangement. There are many different wads on the market, even the new plastic shot cups, though I don't think you will find them for most muskets, as they are made mostly for 20, 12, and 10 gauge modern shotguns. My Brown Bess is considered an 11 gauge, and I haven't been able to find wads for it.

When you make any changes, change only one thing at a time, like the powder charge. Then shoot three or four shots and write down the results. This will save valuable information and avoid duplication. I normally carry a small note pad and pen when I go to the range. My memory is less reliable than a written record.

Once you have worked out the best wad arrangement, you might want to see if shot size is a factor. As we stated earlier, some guns will shoot #4 shot well and others won't. You will have to try several different sizes to see how they pattern out of your gun. Of course what you plan to shoot at makes a difference too; you wouldn't want to use #4 shot to shoot sporting clays, just as you wouldn't use #9 shot to hunt turkey. Once you've got a good pattern, shoot it at 20 yards, then 30, 35, and even out to 40 yards. This will show you what the effective range of that load is, since the pattern will hold together only so far. Now go up to the heavier, or hunting loads (more powder/more shot) and do the process over again, but don't ever exceed the maximum load recommended by the gun's manufacturer.

Here is a good example of a bad pattern. A quail could have flown through some of those holes and felt only a breeze.​

There are so many possible powder/shot combinations for each gauge gun that it would be an exercise in frustration to try to list them all. The Lyman Black Powder Handbook lists 1 1/8 ounce of shot as the heaviest shot load for a 20-gauge gun, which when used in equal volume gives an 82-grain (FFg) powder load. I see no reason to exceed that. They also list 102 grains of FFg and 1 1/2 ounce of shot for their largest 12-gauge load. Finding wads to fit your smoothbore may be difficult and you may have to buy (or better yet, fabricate) a punch and make your own. That's the way it was originally done. [Ed. note: Check the ads in Muzzle Blasts; Gary Butler of Circle Fly (812) 537-3564 is a source of all sizes of wads for smoothbores.] The standard load is: powder, an over-powder hard cardboard wad, a soft (usually 1/2" thick) cushion wad that had been lubricated, the shot charge, and then the much thinner over-shot wad. Most shooters end up with something other than "the standard load."

This laminated cardboard backing for the target opens up to show penetration through seven layers--obviously enough for small game.​

Another thing we need to be concerned about is shot penetration. When hunting any game our load needs to not only get there, (which may require your getting closer to the game); it also has to cleanly harvest that game. Shot that hits a bird or an animal and wounds instead of cleanly harvesting is not acceptable. In order to know that your load will work, you've got to test it. What I've used is a laminated, corrugated cardboard test target. It consists of up to twelve layers of cardboard laminated together with white glue. Each layer has the grain (that is, the corrugated filler) going 90 degrees from the previous layer (just like plywood). If #6 shot will penetrate six to seven layers I feel it is good for small game like rabbits and ducks; #4 shot must penetrate at least ten layers for me to use it for turkey. There's nothing scientific about this test; it just makes me feel better about my load. To test the smaller shot for shooting clay targets, just tape some string to a few of them and hang them from a tree in a safe shooting area. Then get back to your normal distance and see if your load will reduce them to powder. These are simple but effective ways to test your loads.

It takes time to work up a good load for a rifle, and it takes time to work up a good load for shot, but when you see those clays turn to dust or walk toward that twenty-five pound gobbler you've been calling in for the last three hours, you will be paid back many times over.


 
A lot of wisdom and experience in this article.
I would love to have a smooth bore. I‘m working on my slush fund so eventually I can get myself a Tulle Fusil De Chasse. It’s on my bucket list to harvest a turkey with a Fusil.
 
With the slight delay between ignitions, it sounds challenging to hunt small game with a smoothbore flinter. Sounds like a good way though to learn follow-through.
 
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Smokin' Joe that's an excellent choice, and Marty yes you'll learn just that "learn follow-through ". Once you guys get use to all the movement of the lock on your flinter, you'll find your shooting your percussion guns better than before. All because of learning follow-through, really helps with "hang fires as well". Good luck and hope to see shooting a flint gun soon guys .....
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Follow-through is very necessary to hit any moving target. I've made a couple of running shots on deer, one with a percussion and one with my flintlock smoothbore. My regular round ball load is a .600" lead ball, .012" patch and 70 to 75 grains of 3F. I've fired group after group after group of 3 shots at 50 yards for a consistent 3".
 
Buck, thanks so much for your advice and the articles! I'm confident I have the right, though rather heavy, shot load for turkey. Will need to investigate other combinations for smaller game.

And now the search for a round ball load begins. Uncertain of what diameter would be best, I ordered round balls in .590. .600 and .610. When I find a good combo is found I will buy a Lee mold, or have one made in brass. Will certainly shoot the Chief's Gun in NMLRA events at Fort Lupton. As most of my big game hunting is done from ambush the smoothie could do the job. There's this one clump of plumb brush only 20 minutes from home that has yielded several muleys to the Renegade, at 40-50 yards.

Thanks again!
 
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